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Topic: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans (Read 902 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #50
they don't feel shit on by the dnc as much as they feel shit on by trump.  if you think their focus will be something other than trump, you've got it wrong.
guap's posts itt are emblematic of why the dems will lose in 2020. they actually believe this shit.
no.  they WILL focus on trump.

guapo's odds?

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #51
As PD said: this is brazen self-promotion. As tioH said, the fact that this is how she can self-promote is interesting, and the claim is important.

thanks, buddy!

wanna add on that i have a lil chuckle at the "brazile saying this is suspicious because, as a longtime clinton loyalist, she's clearly just out for revenge (and also incidentally money)" line because if this were written be some bernard brother, it'd be "this is biased and should not be taken at face value because he clearly hates clinton (and also incidentally wants to make money off a book)." what i want to know is how we discredit the motives of someone who's somehow completely neutral on the dem primary.

(5 post comboooooo)

That is a fascinating hypothetical.


Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #53
Not all heroes wear capes

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #54
As PD said: this is brazen self-promotion. As tioH said, the fact that this is how she can self-promote is interesting, and the claim is important.

thanks, buddy!

wanna add on that i have a lil chuckle at the "brazile saying this is suspicious because, as a longtime clinton loyalist, she's clearly just out for revenge (and also incidentally money)" line because if this were written be some bernard brother, it'd be "this is biased and should not be taken at face value because he clearly hates clinton (and also incidentally wants to make money off a book)." what i want to know is how we discredit the motives of someone who's somehow completely neutral on the dem primary.

(5 post comboooooo)
PD does have a further point in this: the way Brazile is going about it seems much closer to deliberate distortion than to honest callout. If she really thought something was wrong, then why now? Why in a blatant self-promotion book, and not as a separate article?

It does feel somewhat as if Brazile saw something that was somewhat unsavory, and is up playing how unsavory it was for self-promotion and attention.

The discredit there isn't from her position, but in the way she is carrying it out.
  • Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 08:45:16 AM by uncool

  • meepmeep
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Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #55
progressive Tea Party

This is the dumbest thing that could happen.

I know it looks like it was a great idea for the GOP because they've won elections, but the cost at which they've won should be unacceptable. The GOP as we knew it 15-20 years ago is dead, and the Tea Party helped kill it. It is complete and utter garbage, hollowed out by lunatic ideologues, and no one who legitimately supports left-leaning policies should be hoping the same thing happens to the Democrats.

this makes sense in as much as progressive ideas and conservative ideas are really just the same in terms of quality and popularity, but that's not actually the case.

lol

anyway the ability of everyone on the left to not get dragged into dumbass purity fights gives me lots of hope that if we elected a "progressive tea party" with a solid democratic majority that everyone would cooperate and get things done and pass legislation that everyone will be happy with

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #56
Well, it is correct that it is discrediting, not so much her "motives," but her narrative, because of her motives.  Her own behavior and dishonesty requires skepticism of both, not "well gee she says she has proof, here is the smoking gun we've been looking for! (but were already convinced was there all along)"

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #57
lol

anyway the ability of everyone on the left to not get dragged into dumbass purity fights gives me lots of hope that if we elected a "progressive tea party" with a solid democratic majority that everyone would cooperate and get things done and pass legislation that everyone will be happy with

a leftist governing coalition would make the shitshow we're seeing today look like a well-oiled machine lmao

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #58
progressive Tea Party

This is the dumbest thing that could happen.

I know it looks like it was a great idea for the GOP because they've won elections, but the cost at which they've won should be unacceptable. The GOP as we knew it 15-20 years ago is dead, and the Tea Party helped kill it. It is complete and utter garbage, hollowed out by lunatic ideologues, and no one who legitimately supports left-leaning policies should be hoping the same thing happens to the Democrats.

this makes sense in as much as progressive ideas and conservative ideas are really just the same in terms of quality and popularity, but that's not actually the case.

lol

anyway the ability of everyone on the left to not get dragged into dumbass purity fights gives me lots of hope that if we elected a "progressive tea party" with a solid democratic majority that everyone would cooperate and get things done and pass legislation that everyone will be happy with

do you think citizen pushback is not a relevant factor in why the GOP can't get shit done? because i am pretty sure the hardliners could browbeat the moderates into accepting some form of their legislation lacking the threat of their constituents revolting. to look at the other side of this coin, the ACA passed despite the tea party protests. it's almost like the problem preventing them from governing isn't their tactics, its their shitty hated policy ideas!

anyway a leftist tea party isn't going to happen because the left's self-defeating impulse is to split rather than to take over from within so whatever.

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #59
Well, it is correct that it is discrediting, not so much her "motives," but her narrative, because of her motives.  Her own behavior and dishonesty requires skepticism of both, not "well gee she says she has proof, here is the smoking gun we've been looking for! (but were already convinced was there all along)"

i mean i guess it's possible that she's a fucking moron and is publishing accusations like this with no documentation to back it up. if that's so, it will be found out in short order.

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #60
Well, it is correct that it is discrediting, not so much her "motives," but her narrative, because of her motives.  Her own behavior and dishonesty requires skepticism of both, not "well gee she says she has proof, here is the smoking gun we've been looking for! (but were already convinced was there all along)"

i mean i guess it's possible that she's a fucking moron and is publishing accusations like this with no documentation to back it up. if that's so, it will be found out in short order.
I don't think PD meant discrediting in the sense that Brazile was outright lying. More that she could be and likely is distorting what happened in deceptive ways. For example, that manipulation could include turning a non-story ("somewhat unsavory", to quote myself) piece of sausage-making into a huge thing.

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #61
Well, it is correct that it is discrediting, not so much her "motives," but her narrative, because of her motives.  Her own behavior and dishonesty requires skepticism of both, not "well gee she says she has proof, here is the smoking gun we've been looking for! (but were already convinced was there all along)"

i mean i guess it's possible that she's a fucking moron and is publishing accusations like this with no documentation to back it up. if that's so, it will be found out in short order.
I don't think PD meant discrediting in the sense that Brazile was outright lying. More that she could be and likely is distorting what happened in deceptive ways. For example, that manipulation could include turning a non-story ("somewhat unsavory", to quote myself) piece of sausage-making into a huge thing.

she definitely is full of shit on a lot of levels, no question in my mind. like the example that jumped out at me was that there's no way she could have been "wondering why" press releases needed to go through clinton's campaign HQ and only realize now what the reason for that is. it's self serving as fuck but still really fascinating to me that she's the one doing it.

but i really don't think that using the fact that the party is broke as leverage to control its hiring decisions before you're even the nominee is a nothingburger tbh!

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #62
that whole phone convo with bernie was another way too over the top thing. but what she says he reacted with seems plausible at least.

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #63
Realistically I'm sure the Dems are shitting the bed when it comes to managing their finances and I'm sure they've made some sketchy decisions about fundraising. I'm also sure that Clinton tried to bypass the campaign finance rules because most dems weren't too enthused with her and there weren't a lot of industry leaders clamoring to get on board with super PACs and coordinated messaging. And I'm sure this intersected in a way that gave an unpopular Clinton unreasonable control over the part apparatus and allowed Clinton to lock Sanders out of things like mailing lists and so on.

I'm not sure Brazile is telling us anything new so much as she's saying "this was shitty and I got put in a really shitty position of having to lie to the public about what I found and it made me really mad." I can see how she would be pissed off and would be trying to get ahead of this by throwing Clinton and Schultz under the bus, because this will get dragged out by Russia and Wikileaks and she would rather save her own career and reputation than go down defending Clinton and Schultz.

I don't really give a shit about Brazile or her book, but I think we're going to see more of this because there is no political value in circling the wagons in this situation. We don't need to go down the "bernie woulda won" rabbit hole to recognize that the Dems are vulnerable here and getting everything out in the open reduces that vulnerability a little.


Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #65
that whole phone convo with bernie was another way too over the top thing. but what she says he reacted with seems plausible at least.

speaking of maple grandpa,


  • el jefe
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Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #66
progressive Tea Party

This is the dumbest thing that could happen.

I know it looks like it was a great idea for the GOP because they've won elections, but the cost at which they've won should be unacceptable. The GOP as we knew it 15-20 years ago is dead, and the Tea Party helped kill it. It is complete and utter garbage, hollowed out by lunatic ideologues, and no one who legitimately supports left-leaning policies should be hoping the same thing happens to the Democrats.

this makes sense in as much as progressive ideas and conservative ideas are really just the same in terms of quality and popularity, but that's not actually the case.

lol

anyway the ability of everyone on the left to not get dragged into dumbass purity fights gives me lots of hope that if we elected a "progressive tea party" with a solid democratic majority that everyone would cooperate and get things done and pass legislation that everyone will be happy with

do you think citizen pushback is not a relevant factor in why the GOP can't get shit done? because i am pretty sure the hardliners could browbeat the moderates into accepting some form of their legislation lacking the threat of their constituents revolting. to look at the other side of this coin, the ACA passed despite the tea party protests. it's almost like the problem preventing them from governing isn't their tactics, its their shitty hated policy ideas!

anyway a leftist tea party isn't going to happen because the left's self-defeating impulse is to split rather than to take over from within so whatever.
as to the tea party's failure to move policy, I think it is clear that that stems at least partly from shitty legislative and PR strategies. 

examples:
openly welcoming a government shutdown, in the mistaken belief it would give them leverage over obama, and then being surprised to learn that 1) the public really doesn't like government shutdowns, and 2) no one buys your blame dodging afterward when you've spent weeks in front of the TV cameras saying "bring it on!".  by choosing a completely stupid strategy, they had nothing to show for the standoff - not even the repeal of the medical device tax - and took a hit in the polls.

refusing obama's proposal to extend bush's tax cuts only for non-wealthy people, until after they all had expired and the PR pressure to stop holding the vast majority of the country hostage for the benefit of the wealthy became overwhelming.  it was never possible to save the tax cuts for the wealthy, but they chose to get politically damaged for trying on top of the failure.  also, they could have gotten a better deal for where to set the cutoff if they had agreed sooner.

always insisting on an all-or-nothing approach to trying to repeal the ACA, which continually failed and left them with nothing to show for their efforts, when an incremental approach could have repealed the whole law by now.

even the one major victory they did get (sequester), was won in a way that was ultimately self-defeating.  the main reason for pursuing deficit reduction in the first place is to protect the country's sovereign credit rating.  by screwing with the debt ceiling to leverage results out of obama, they got our credit rating downgraded on the spot.


these are examples of where they failed on policy as a result of stupid strategy, which in turn I think owed in large part to the purity politics dynamic they were dealing with at the time.

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Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #67

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #68
 :awgee:

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #69
oh ok so she was that dumb lmbo

pls accept my apologies for giving her that much benefit of the doubt, that she wasn't a complete fucking idiot.

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #70
like all bullshitting aside, i can acknowledge that i got hoodwinked here but... just... i'm honestly kinda stunned that she did something this dumb? i was just so sure that, no matter how clearly self-serving her motives, she would not make a claim like that unless she could back it up in all its particulars. that is the type of shit you have to come correct with. real "swing at the king, best not miss" shit. it's so astonishing that she thought she could get away with this that it almost seems more plausible that there is some other document backing up what she says than that she'd do something this incredibly stupid, this trivially easy to refute.

never going to underestimate the stupidity of party hacks again.

  • tysixtus
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Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #71
I find it easier to believe that top Dems were happy to pay their buddies "consulting fees" for doing jack shit which is what the vast majority of "consultants" get paid to do.

Exactly.

  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #72
Amazed at how many of the 'TR elite' are still here. Thought there'd be more Trump supporters given the overall gestalt. Glad to see you've maintained the security of the bubble. Interesting. I see Pence as an even bigger threat, so 3 more years of madness seems likely.

Is . . . is this really happening?

  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #73
Let's also remember that none of these half-assed, fly-by-night agreements for funding would actually be necessary if the DNC could balance its own fucking budget. 

Re: DNC Fundraising Shennanigans
Reply #74
as to the tea party's failure to move policy, I think it is clear that that stems at least partly from shitty legislative and PR strategies. 

examples:

aight, all this is fair. like tbh i don't think "left tea party" is going to happen, but i'd like to think that if anyone did try to make it happen they could... make it in such a way as to learn from the original's mistakes and only adopt what clearly worked at achieving specific electoral ends? dunno that might be too much to hope for tbh.