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Topic: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade (Read 2897 times) previous topic - next topic

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Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
This is from their 1970 book "Population, Resources, Environment" p. 166


  • Faid
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #1
Is this where we post the same references that disprove Ehrlich's claim, and you dismiss them all as garbage and propaganda?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #2
Or where we point out that the word 'largely' is not super precise?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #3
Dave's just taking advantage of you not being able to link to previous rebuttals.
Truth is out of style

  • Faid
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #4
Also, let's not forget that all authors who point out that Ehrlich's claim is wrong, simply repeat the "Darwin Club dogma". Oh and, "Great historian Herodotus Homer".

Anything else?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #5
I emailed him last night to find out what he bases this opinion on ... he replied almost instantly (Sunday night!) and said he doesn't remember because he wrote that so long ago.  He's probably been brainwashed after all these years.

  • Pingu
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #6
Two possibilities at least:
  • He's been brainwashed.
  • Subsequent evidence showed that he was not correct.
How would you set about discovering which of these was most likely?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #7
Examine the evidence.  (Something you apparently know very little about)

  • Pingu
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #8
OK, so do it.

Find evidence to support the case that Ehrlich has been brainwashed.
Then examine the copious evidence that he was not correct (e.g. the evidence recurring of cycles of humid - dry Saharan climate)
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #9
Quote from: Pingu link=msg=465Eh date=1465225198
OK, so do it.

Find evidence to support the case that Ehrlich has been brainwashed.
Then examine the copious evidence that he was not correct (e.g. the evidence recurring of cycles of humid - dry Saharan climate)
It should be easy to find the evidence Ehrlich has been brainwashed. Should be a lot of people that signed on to his 1960s opinions and writings would find his current opinions and writings to be indicative of said brainwashing. Indeed, one would think Anne Ehrlich would be shouting from the rooftops that he's been brainwashed, unless, of course, she's been brainwashed as well. You know, it's likely everyone has been brainwashed. At least everyone who disagrees with Bluffy. It's the great conspiracy theory again.

It should also be fairly easy to find the evidence (even though the Ehrlichs didn't provide citations and Paul Ehrlich apparently doesn't remember what he wrote 60 years ago, though it would seem like he'd have a copies of his books somewhere about) upon which the Ehrlichs based their writings. And fairly easy to find the evidence that rebutted their writings. If that's what Bluffy wanted to do, examine all the evidence, like he claims, but rarely if ever does. Indeed, since Bluffy has Ehrlich's email address, he could simply ask Ehrlich if he still supported those claims. I believe it's possible and possibly even probable, if Bluffy actually did email Ehrlich and actually got a reply, it wasn't the reply Bluffy wanted so he's substituted the plausible scenario that Ehrlich didn't remember those claims.

Hey, Bluffy, how about inviting Ehrlich to come here and post about those claims?
Are we there yet?

  • Faid
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #10
OK, so do it.

Find evidence to support the case that Ehrlich has been brainwashed.
Then examine the copious evidence that he was not correct (e.g. the evidence recurring of cycles of humid - dry Saharan climate)
Inb4 "I can't tell if he was brainwashed and I can't think of any refutation of the recurring cycles evidence, but there HAS to be one because of, you know, all the OTHER EVIDENCE".
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #11
I'd bet Paul Ehrlich has learned a lot of new things in sixty years. I don't hold to a lot of ideas and opinions I espoused even forty years ago. Most of us grow, educate ourselves, learn, take in new evidence and knowledge, discern, and adapt our understanding of how the world works as we mature.

  • Pingu
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #12
Well, when he had that idea, it was interesting, and he was an important voice in alerting us to the potential impact human activities could have on climate and ecosystems.  He turned out not to be right about that particular feedback loop (or only a little bit right) but he got everyone thinking.  Me, for one. 
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #13
 We already have the evidence we need for two items related to this topic... 

1)  The global flood about 4500 years ago
2)  evidence that the area which we now call the Sahara desert was once lush and fertile

 Also we know that the activities of mankind mentioned by Ehrlich as causal for the expansion of the Sahara desert are also causing other deserts today. 

 The only thing I don't have in hand are historical records from pre-Roman or Roman times describing these lush and fertile conditions in north Africa.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #14
We already have the evidence we need for two items related to this topic... 

1)  The global flood about 4500 years ago

  • Pingu
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #15
We already have the evidence we need for two items related to this topic... 

1)  The global flood about 4500 years ago

There is no evidence for a global flood about 4500 years ago.  In fact there is copious evidence AGAINST it.
Quote
2)  evidence that the area which we now call the Sahara desert was once lush and fertile

Yes.  Repeatedly, over millenia.


Quote
lso we know that the activities of mankind mentioned by Ehrlich as causal for the expansion of the Sahara desert are also causing other deserts today. 

No, we do not.  What we have evidence for is that human carbon-burning activities are a) causing climate change, which may well "cause other deserts" at some point in the future, and may already be contributing to the expansion of the sahara, for the first time in history and b) that degrading ecosystems can lead to habitat destruction and soil erosion. That is not the same as "causing deserts" in the sense that the Sahara is a desert, namely a region of very low rainfall with an adapted ecosystem.

Quote
The only thing I don't have in hand are historical records from pre-Roman or Roman times describing these lush and fertile conditions in north Africa.

You don't have anything except recycled bullshit.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #16
Oh yeah?  How about this?

 A Google search of the term "deforestation during Roman times"  brings up this Wikipedia article... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_during_the_Roman_period

 In which a 1939 book entitled "the rape of the earth" by GV Jacks is quoted where it is stated that deforestation in Roman times created the Sahara desert.

 Didn't have to look very far for that!

Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #17
 Here's the book on Amazon.com... http://www.amazon.com/rape-earth-world-survey-erosion/dp/B00086L0IC

 Guess I might have to get that one next!

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #18
Here's the book on Amazon.com... http://www.amazon.com/rape-earth-world-survey-erosion/dp/B00086L0IC

 Guess I might have to get that one next!

Quote
The material used for the research was gathered during the 1930s but not published until after the war

What is it with you and extremely old research? You're always hauling out ancient publications which, though they may have been fine in their day and may have provided inspiration for further research, are almost always lacking due to the much more detailed information available from current published research.


  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #19
We already have the evidence we need for two items related to this topic... 

1)  The global flood about 4500 years ago
2)  evidence that the area which we now call the Sahara desert was once lush and fertile

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #20
Oh good. He's as retarded as ever. Some things never change.
Truth is out of style

  • JonF
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #21
Oh yeah?  How about this?

 A Google search of the term "deforestation during Roman times"  brings up this Wikipedia article... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_during_the_Roman_period

 In which a 1939 book entitled "the rape of the earth" by GV Jacks is quoted where it is stated that deforestation in Roman times created the Sahara desert.

 Didn't have to look very far for that!
Damn, you are the greatest unquestioning woo-swallower of all time.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • Faid
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #22
Oh yeah?  How about this?

 A Google search of the term "deforestation during Roman times"  brings up this Wikipedia article... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_during_the_Roman_period

 In which a 1939 book entitled "the rape of the earth" by GV Jacks is quoted where it is stated that deforestation in Roman times created the Sahara desert.

 Didn't have to look very far for that!
Really? Because I'm still looking.

Where, exactly, does that 1939 (!!!) book say that deforestation "created the Sahara desert", dave? Where in the article does it say that?

Also LOL@ "Teh Fludde is my evidence".
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #23
I see Hawkins is (1) taking advantage of the fact that the site crashed, so he can pretend all these dumb positions haven't been thoroughly refuted, safe in the knowledge no one can link to those refutations, and (2) taking advantage of the fact that there are no moderators (I guess) to boot this complete garbage from Science to a forum more suited to complete garbage.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Paul and Anne Ehrlich on How the Sahara Desert is Manmade
Reply #24
"I said it, I googled it, I believe it".
I have a Darwin-debased mind.