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TR Memescape

  • Talk Rational: We've got grenades to go.

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1
I already said that I don't get what you're doing. You lost me.  So I am charging ahead in my own way that I understand.
Why not continue the conversation with Pingu, and get her to sort out the part the lost you?

After all, if you are genuinely lost on the basics, there's no point trying to conjure up a new model at the moment. It would be better for you to thoroughly understand the basics first. That way you know what any model will have to deal with.
She's welcome to try. 


You just won't participate?
I'll participate if it's understandable.  This is a big problem with university professors ... not being able to figure out how to explain stuff understandably.  I had ONE professor in my undergrad that knew how to explain stuff well.  All the others were horrible.  The root problem, I think, is a lack of empathy.  Self centeredness.  The same thing happens to would be sales people.  I'm good enough now at my sales job that they sometimes send new people out with me for me to train. (I hate it) The new people are very eager and they tend to interrupt me because they are eager.  But they lack empathy and often whatever it is they interrupt me about wasn't something that the customer wanted to know about so they end up hurting the situation instead of helping.  I've frankly decided I'm going to tell all new people going forward to just shut up and let me talk.  It's the same thing with professors.  They have a high opinion of themselves and what they know and they think all their students want to hear them talk about whatever it is they deem important.  Not the case.  Students are just like Sears customers.  They have certain needs and desires and they want someone to empathize and discover what those needs and desires are.


Oooh, so you can see my posts. Why do you ignore them? I've even started a nice, simple thread for you to investigate Brown's C14 curve, without any of that complex stuff like statistics, multiple curves.

If you find Pingu's (extremely good) explanation too complex, then come play in my very, very simple thread.
2
"So it's your choice to place the post-flood (and in fact the pre-flood) CO2 level at a high enough level to make all of earth's children imbeciles.
(That would actually explain a lot that's written in the bible too.)"

Lol

That's pretty good
3
Isn't it a fundamental idea of the evolution of flight in the dino to bird theory, that running feathered creatures began to fly?
4
You expect Pingu to not only be empathetic, but psychic.  This coming from the man who has labeled her as a manipulative bitch publicly and on multiple occasions.
You are broken. :staregonk:
Not sure about that.
Sort of suspect he was ever right in the first place.
5
I already said that I don't get what you're doing. You lost me.  So I am charging ahead in my own way that I understand.
Why not continue the conversation with Pingu, and get her to sort out the part the lost you?

After all, if you are genuinely lost on the basics, there's no point trying to conjure up a new model at the moment. It would be better for you to thoroughly understand the basics first. That way you know what any model will have to deal with.
She's welcome to try. 


You just won't participate?
I'll participate if it's understandable.  This is a big problem with university professors ... not being able to figure out how to explain stuff understandably.  I had ONE professor in my undergrad that knew how to explain stuff well.  All the others were horrible.  The root problem, I think, is a lack of empathy.  Self centeredness.  The same thing happens to would be sales people.  I'm good enough now at my sales job that they sometimes send new people out with me for me to train. (I hate it) The new people are very eager and they tend to interrupt me because they are eager.  But they lack empathy and often whatever it is they interrupt me about wasn't something that the customer wanted to know about so they end up hurting the situation instead of helping.  I've frankly decided I'm going to tell all new people going forward to just shut up and let me talk.  It's the same thing with professors.  They have a high opinion of themselves and what they know and they think all their students want to hear them talk about whatever it is they deem important.  Not the case.  Students are just like Sears customers.  They have certain needs and desires and they want someone to empathize and discover what those needs and desires are.

Given that everyone else here completely understands Pingu's lessons, perhaps it's you that is the problem?

BTW, your projection of your self-loathing is showing.
6
First problem I see with the 100X thing is .... the total global inventory is only about 43,000 Gt. I think there should be the same total carbon per and post flood.
Dave,
Go back and read your creationist stories again.  The total inventory you mention above is only that amount of carbon in integral contact with each other and the atmosphere; in otherwords the biosphere (upper and lower).

The remaining carbon is held in isolation as fossil fuels (a small amount) and rock (a very large amount, e.g. limestone).  These reservoirs are not in integral contact with the biosphere except is isolated quantities (i.e. a river running through a limestone cave).

Also, your creationist story line had MORE carbon in the biosphere (100x the upper biosphere) that was buried in the biblical flood and thus created our fossil fuels (as the story goes ...).  So no, the amount of carbon IN THE BIOSPHERE pre- and post- flood was different.
Yes I know that fossil fuels and limestone rock is not currently in contact with the biosphere ... but they WERE ... prior to the Flood ... at least the fossil fuels were ... and a large percentage of the limestone rocks were as well ...
Quote
What is Limestone?
Limestone is a sedimentary rock composed primarily of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in the form of the mineral calcite. It most commonly forms in clear, warm, shallow marine waters. It is usually an organic sedimentary rock that forms from the accumulation of shell, coral, algal, and fecal debris. It can also be a chemical sedimentary rock formed by the precipitation of calcium carbonate from lake or ocean water. http://geology.com/rocks/limestone.shtml

I wonder where all that pre-fludde limestone came from. 

An, no, there would not be a large percentage of it in contact with the biosphere. A meter or two in and it's no longer in contact with anything other than itself. Most of the limestones we know of are significantly thicker than a couple of meters, more like hundreds of meters, so probably better than 95% would not be in contact.

But back to where all that pre-fludde limestone came from. According to your fantasy myth, it had about 2000 years to accumulate and it does so in marine or lacastrine environments, which you've asserted were far less prevalent than post-fludde. You do understand limestone is made up of the shells and skeletons of tiny marine and lacastrine organisms, don't you?
7
Mafia / Re: Witches Day 3
Last post by nostrum -
sorry rach, I'm in a mood. I'll leave you alone and defer to my town reads' reads on you. Safe to say I can't read you.

xx
8
Plus Dave,
HOW does this impact 14C levels?  Which is what we're talking about here.
9
So what I'm thinking is that HERE'S the situation we really have pre and post Flood ...


OK Dave,
What concentration of CO2 do you want in the immediate post-flood atmosphere?

Here's some information that might help your decision (remember that pre-industrial levels were around 280ppm, so multiples of that would increase the carbon in the atmosphere since the atmospheric volume hasn't really changed much post flood (unless you want a far larger atmosphere).
Elevated CO2 Levels Directly Affect Human Cognition, New Harvard Study Shows
Quote
That study found "statistically significant and meaningful reductions in decision-making performance" in test subjects as CO2 levels rose from a baseline of 600 parts per million (ppm) to 1000 ppm and 2500 ppm.
...
They found that, on average, a typical participant's cognitive scores dropped 21 percent with a 400 ppm increase in CO2.
So it's your choice to place the post-flood (and in fact the pre-flood) CO2 level at a high enough level to make all of earth's children imbeciles.
(That would actually explain a lot that's written in the bible too.)

Plus, any carbon content change in the atmosphere immediate post-flood would only be a one-off change that would correct and equilibrate with the rest of the biosphere quickly.  Remember that the r=375 year mean life value means that all the carbon in the upper biosphere "turns over once" every 375 years.  If it were smaller immediate post-flood then turn over (and reservoir increased size) would be faster.  But after about year 100 or 200 post-flood the atmospheric excess would be gone.
10
I already said that I don't get what you're doing. You lost me.  So I am charging ahead in my own way that I understand.
Why not continue the conversation with Pingu, and get her to sort out the part the lost you?

After all, if you are genuinely lost on the basics, there's no point trying to conjure up a new model at the moment. It would be better for you to thoroughly understand the basics first. That way you know what any model will have to deal with.
She's welcome to try. 


You just won't participate?
I'll participate if it's understandable.  This is a big problem with university professors ... not being able to figure out how to explain stuff understandably.  I had ONE professor in my undergrad that knew how to explain stuff well.  All the others were horrible.  The root problem, I think, is a lack of empathy.  Self centeredness.  The same thing happens to would be sales people.  I'm good enough now at my sales job that they sometimes send new people out with me for me to train. (I hate it) The new people are very eager and they tend to interrupt me because they are eager.  But they lack empathy and often whatever it is they interrupt me about wasn't something that the customer wanted to know about so they end up hurting the situation instead of helping.  I've frankly decided I'm going to tell all new people going forward to just shut up and let me talk.  It's the same thing with professors.  They have a high opinion of themselves and what they know and they think all their students want to hear them talk about whatever it is they deem important.  Not the case.  Students are just like Sears customers.  They have certain needs and desires and they want someone to empathize and discover what those needs and desires are.

Dave, this is pure calumny.

You actually AGREED with all the posts right up to where we stopped. Then you said you were lost.

How did you manage to get lost when you'd already AGREED to what I'd said so far?

And no, I do not "lack empathy", nor am I particularly "self-centred", and I have been teaching for my entire adult life, to students who have been overwhelmingly happy with my teaching.

There was NOTHING in what I said that was hard to understand, as evidenced by the fact that you yourself said you understood it.

Then for *some reason* you decided that you were *lost*.

You know why you were lost, Dave?  You were lost not because I wasn't clear, but because I was.  Because you understood everything right up to and including the part where it became clear that IF the "curves agree" THEN we can read off past values of atmospheric C14:C12 ratios.

And that if Brown is right, we will see Brown's curve.  And if something else is right, that is what we will see.

You understood that just fine.

You are LOST because we don't see Brown's curve.  And we see 50,000 years of good data.

And you are LOST without YEC.

And instead of going back and trying to make sense of it, you heap abuse on the quality of my teaching.  And my personality.

fuck you Dave Hawkins.