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Topic: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al (Read 145 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Inb4 anime was a mistake, etc.

So I just plowed through the 4 episodes of the Castlevania show on Netflix, and this was the first anime series I have watched in a long, long time.  Some random questions/observations in no particular order:

  • Animation seems to have changed quite a bit -- it looks, I dunno, more jerky? Like, if I were to use a video game term, it feels like the animation in this show is at a lower frame rate than what I remember.  If I compare Cvania to, say, Ninja Scroll, the latter seems to have much smoother animation, as if they have simply drawn more frames. 
  • In the same vein, older classics like Ninja Scroll and Vampire Hunter D seem to be much flatter in their drawings.  Newer creations are more detailed, and have more depth.
  • Am I wrong about these above two things?
  • One of the things that used to annoy me about older anime was the reusing of frames and sequences to draw something out. For example, this scene in Ninja Scroll where they basically just recycle the same ninja asset a few times.  There doesn't seem to be any of that in Cvania -- is that a new thing? Or did they just not use it here?
  • Likewise, Cvania does not have any of those long pause scenes (I don't know what the fuck they are called) where the screen freezes except for one or two things moving.  I'm sure there's a technical term for that, but I don't know what the fuck it is.  Anyway, they seemed really popular back in the day, but I don't think I saw one in this show.  Is that the new normal?
  • Voice acting is much better now. 
  • Color palettes seem much more saturated and, I dunno, "digital"?  Really bright blues, reds, and greens.
  • The Castlevania show is pretty good, especially for old fans.  I just wish it was longer than 4 episodes, that feels kinda lame.

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #1
I just watched the first episode of this. I'm not sure it's the best example of modern anime to compare to older styles. It more or less looked like older style anime, with a lot of computer effects for fog, smoke, flames, etc added in. Not to say that that's bad or makes the show less enjoyable.

I don't have any technical expertise but I think modern computer animation has given creators the freedom to make really vivid and dynamic scenes that weren't feasible 15 or 20 years ago. Just watch a few seconds of this for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrdbZT5luns&t=12s

In that show, and in many other newer shows like Attack on Titan, there's something happening in almost every shot - hair shaking, eyes glistening, lighting effects. It feels like it's being shot by a real camera that moves in real space. There are very few of those Ken Burns style shots of panning over a still frame.

  • ksen
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #2
Voice acting is much better now.

Ty, tell me you're not watching english dubs.

  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #3
Voice acting is much better now.

Ty, tell me you're not watching english dubs.

Back in the day -- when everything was on VHS -- all you could get were English dubs. 

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #4
Voice acting is much better now.

Ty, tell me you're not watching english dubs.

Back in the day -- when everything was on VHS -- all you could get were English dubs. 
Back in the day, we'd get high and watch Our Star Blazers on tv.

ETA: Which we got through an antenna.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • ksen
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #5
a what?

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #6
oh yeah
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #7
And Bruce Jenner was on the Wheaties box.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • ksen
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #8
Voice acting is much better now.

Ty, tell me you're not watching english dubs.

Back in the day -- when everything was on VHS -- all you could get were English dubs.
I was probably lucky.  Back in the late 80s I had a friend attend the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art and he'd come home with WHS tapes of subtitled anime we'd watch together over the summer.  I still have fond memories of watching Urusei Yatsura.

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #9
uy lol you old fuck

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #10
i mean, what is a urusai ytsuro

  • ksen
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #11
i mean, what is a urusai ytsuro
One of the best damn animes ever made.  :getoffmylawnoldman:

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #12
so idk about this series in particular but a thing about anime that seems to generally hold true (besides that it owns (it does)) is that often they are adaptions of mangos to an animated format, and so the mango is seen as the "primary" product and the anime an adjunct to it. this leads to an audience that doesn't mind things that are more comic-book-like but there are other factors. often they make 0 money on the anime itself and it effectively serves as an ad for the mango. they are produced on tight schedules with maybe (at an extreme) a week of work per episode for some series before an episode goes live. all of this only really applies to serial, tv show formats.

so basically a lot of what you're describing is basically economy of labor. they will do still frame shots held for several seconds or like pan over still images with shaky cam and action lines because they are saving effort so they can animate more critical action scenes fluidly, because they may have few man-hours of animation labor available to pump episodes out. and the audience doesn't mind much because it's often just reproducing the comic-book-style cues from the mango which is, again, the primary product. the signature example i'm thinking of here is attack on titan which i think they actually didn't finish animating some episodes until the day before it aired. they use all kinds of still shot shortcuts all over the place so that the few minutes or so of titan murder per episode flow smoothly, and big showdown fights like at the end of season 1 are smooth as silk.

now these constraints don't necessarily apply to full, feature-film-length works. so when you mention say ninja scroll or vampire hunter d, these would have more time and production budget than a tv show. i can't discount that the industry may have been very different in the 80s and budgets may have been bigger and more time available, but a lot of what you're describing amounts basically to low operating budgets and short production times for tv shows. ninja scroll and vampire hunter d may have had much better budgets, more animators, etc. because they are movies, and this would allow them to animate each scene more smoothly. framerate is actually not a bad term to use now that i think about it because it's actual frames of animation, where the more you have the more smooth the animation. (but even then, they'll apply economy of effort by reusing shots or still frames where they think it matters less, as you point out). i tend to give anime a pass for this because they do tend to put a lot more detail into what they draw than a lot of much-smoother western animation, which from what i have seen have much simpler designs (and this makes it easier to animate smoothly). it is annoying when it carries on so long or happens so often that you realize it.

how does this relate to the castlevania show? i don't know because it's apparently a 4 part series. that's not like a breakneck mango adaptation serial tv show with all its hellish constraints, but it is episodic. but it seems like a mini-series format would have movie-like budget. point is it might not all be down to changes in the industry to animation technique so much as budgetary or labor constraints.

as for "flater" images, that could be a legitimate difference in drawing style over time. i have noticed a similar thing with a lot of character designs being way more "round" than in older stuff.

wrt a "digital" look, this might be because of another industry change to save costs: incorporation of cell-shaded CG animation.

thank u 4 reading my words about anime
  • Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 07:54:27 AM by the idea of Harambe

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #13
In that show, and in many other newer shows like Attack on Titan, ...There are very few of those Ken Burns style shots of panning over a still frame.

lol wtf are you talking about. AoT uses the fuck out of that technique.

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #14
I know this is heresy around here, but in general, I prefer the english dubs just so I don't have to split my focus quite as much. I'm rally enjoying some of the Netflix exclusive stuff I've seen, but it's coming out so fast now I can't keep up or decide what to watch next.

Also, animated (but not anime) the How to Train Your Dragon series is surprisingly good.

Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #15
i don't mind dubs if they're actually good but dubbed dialog so often has a really stilted quality to it, with odd phrases and cadence. an example of good dubbing imv is the first rebuild of evangelion movie, which is ironic considering how infamous the show's dub is. (dunno about subsequent installments' dubbing, only saw the first one dubbed)

  • ksen
Re: Anime Questions for GoonerJ et al
Reply #16
My weeb levels have been getting out of hand.  I've even started putting the japanese voice tracks on in videogames if they have that option.

I don't like english dubs a lot of time just because the voices don't seem to fit and I don't think they convey as much emotional range as the japanese voice acting does.

I'm trying to tone it down though.  I switched my final fantasy 12 and 15 playthroughs back to english and it's not been horrible.