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Topic: The Trump Kompromat Theory (Read 29721 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1375
trump has Tough Guy appeal, for people who aren't over high school.
Hate to break it to you el jefe, but nobody gets over high school.
nah.  some do, some don't.

at the very least, a lot of people outgrow the pathetic dynamic of "I have no confidence, so I'm going to latch onto someone who does and seek their approval."  I think going to college has a lot to do with that.  people find themselves and get comfortable in their own skin.  people who don't go to college tend to never have that experience.
Going to disagree with that, albeit anecdotally. Around 80% of the people I currently associate with did not go to university (because rural demographic, partly). They went to trade school or a tech/nursing/community college, or they started work directly from high school. Lots of them are trade workers, health care workers, fishers, tourism workers, many run small businesses (hair dressers, food services, greenhouses, construction). They've certainly grown out of high school social dynamics and don't exhibit any predilection for falling for conmen more than my uni educated friends.

I thought the 'mostly uneducated voted for trump' meme had been at least partly debunked?

I get suspicious when I see blanket condemnation of any group. It's usually manifest elitism.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1376
i don't think that connection has been debunked but the  "white working class" support narrative is a bit fishy given income levels. the white part is more important, but typically lower-earners went for trump less.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1377
trump's correlation with education level was stronger than with income

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/


  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1378
it may be elitist to say trump was more popular with uneducated people.  that doesn't mean it isn't true.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1379
Lmbo @ the college educated outgrowing high school. It's obvious you haven't spent any time in academia.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1380
^^^
l'epic this

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1381
haha, look at the nerds

  • MikeS
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1382
re: college education sets you high school free;
el jefe laid a shitburger, now we get to see him eat it.

ETA to his reply above:  obviously guapo is not college educated

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1383
lol guapo was wrong. what a moron!

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1384
*gives gunner a wedgie*

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1385
it may be elitist to say trump was more popular with uneducated people.  that doesn't mean it isn't true.
The elitism may be expressed in assumed reasons as to why more uneducated people voted Trump. I don't know what those might be.

The electoral riding I live in is one of the poorest educated in the province. It includes the largest number of functionally illiterate adults. Voter turnout is average. I've lived here for 25 years, and in that time I've seen no evidence of people voting against their best interests, nor voting strictly on party lines. (I realise Canadians /= Americans).

So what did lead uneducated people to vote for trump, aside from xenophobia etc.?

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1386
not sure the sample size of what you've personally experienced is enough to challenge the contrary findings all on its own.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1387
speculatively though, there might be some other vector for class consciousness in canada, or the social democratic welfare state is so well established as a needed social good that you just can't get people to vote "against their interests" in that respect. here, education is kinda the only way most americans can get the idea in their head that the rich are not their friends and our welfare state is so anemic and dysfunctional that you could almost forgive poor folks for not realizing that a stronger welfare state is in their interests (because they have no direct experience of such a thing). also, racism (which education can also help combat).

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1388
So what did lead uneducated people to vote for trump, aside from xenophobia etc.?
I don't think there's a whole lot more to it than "Things suck. Let's burn it down!"

Things do suck, particularly for the not-so-well-educated.
Trump's credibility as the guy who's really going to stick it to The Establishment was (is) bolstered by the abhorrence that The Establishment (read: people with a stake in not burning everything down) show toward Trump.
And no need to put aside "xenophobia, etc."; that's part and parcel of that dynamic.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1389
it may be elitist to say trump was more popular with uneducated people.  that doesn't mean it isn't true.
The elitism may be expressed in assumed reasons as to why more uneducated people voted Trump. I don't know what those might be.

The electoral riding I live in is one of the poorest educated in the province. It includes the largest number of functionally illiterate adults. Voter turnout is average. I've lived here for 25 years, and in that time I've seen no evidence of people voting against their best interests, nor voting strictly on party lines. (I realise Canadians /= Americans).

So what did lead uneducated people to vote for trump, aside from xenophobia etc.?
the best I can give is unsupported, subjective impressions. 

I do think we have a "cult of ignorance" in this country.  i.e., a subculture that actually believes knowledge is somehow bad.  "it's all bullshit".  or it's somehow unwise or immoral to learn things.  some of it is creationists being mad at science for saying genesis is wrong.  some of it is distrust of the social activism and social change that emanates from college campuses.  (questioning things is seen as arrogant or perverse or something.  the ideal is to be a "simple man".)   some of it is just dunning kruger.  and probably some blame goes on the fact that we just have a shitty educational system.

I don't get the sense other countries have an equivalent of this.  or at least their ignorance cults aren't as big and pleased with themselves as ours. 

anyway, trump is a big dumbass, whose candidacy offered the (depressingly bad) message that ignorance is worthy of respect.  ignorant people, sick and tired of being told that ignorance is bad, got an enabler.  for them, it felt like an oasis in the desert.
  • Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 09:38:11 AM by el jefe

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1390
i don't think that connection has been debunked but the  "white working class" support narrative is a bit fishy given income levels. the white part is more important, but typically lower-earners went for trump less.

How much of this is confounded by the fact a lot of service workers in cities are poorly-paid, regardless of race?

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1391
not sure the sample size of what you've personally experienced is enough to challenge the contrary findings all on its own.
Well I know that, it's an example from a much broader experience, admittedly anecdotal.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1392
yeah that's fine, i actually think you might be onto something, just felt like STing a bit.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1393
speculatively though, there might be some other vector for class consciousness in canada, or the social democratic welfare state is so well established as a needed social good that you just can't get people to vote "against their interests" in that respect. here, education is kinda the only way most americans can get the idea in their head that the rich are not their friends and our welfare state is so anemic and dysfunctional that you could almost forgive poor folks for not realizing that a stronger welfare state is in their interests (because they have no direct experience of such a thing). also, racism (which education can also help combat).
You may have nailed something here. Even Harper never considered attacking our social safety net, though he tried nibbling at the edges a bit; he was well aware he'd lose the next election if he did. Most (not all, selfish arseholes are found everywhere in the world) Canadians are ashamed of the fact we still have a homeless population and indigenous people are so much more at risk for illness, substance abuse and violence than the rest of us.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1394
speculatively though, there might be some other vector for class consciousness in canada, or the social democratic welfare state is so well established as a needed social good that you just can't get people to vote "against their interests" in that respect. here, education is kinda the only way most americans can get the idea in their head that the rich are not their friends and our welfare state is so anemic and dysfunctional that you could almost forgive poor folks for not realizing that a stronger welfare state is in their interests (because they have no direct experience of such a thing). also, racism (which education can also help combat).
You may have nailed something here. Even Harper never considered attacking our social safety net, though he tried nibbling at the edges a bit; he was well aware he'd lose the next election if he did. Most (not all, selfish arseholes are found everywhere in the world) Canadians are ashamed of the fact we still have a homeless population and indigenous people are so much more at risk for illness, substance abuse and violence than the rest of us.

ETA: I mean to say, yes, we expect people in need to be assisted, and we expect that's where some of our taxes should be spent.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1395
yeah that's fine, i actually think you might be onto something, just felt like STing a bit.
Ha. ST is an underappreciated community asset. :yes:

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1396
I thought this was an interesting take on differences between Canada and US politically, even if it massively undersells the geographic isolation issue.

speculatively though, there might be some other vector for class consciousness in canada, or the social democratic welfare state is so well established as a needed social good that you just can't get people to vote "against their interests" in that respect. here, education is kinda the only way most americans can get the idea in their head that the rich are not their friends and our welfare state is so anemic and dysfunctional that you could almost forgive poor folks for not realizing that a stronger welfare state is in their interests (because they have no direct experience of such a thing). also, racism (which education can also help combat).
You may have nailed something here. Even Harper never considered attacking our social safety net, though he tried nibbling at the edges a bit; he was well aware he'd lose the next election if he did. Most (not all, selfish arseholes are found everywhere in the world) Canadians are ashamed of the fact we still have a homeless population and indigenous people are so much more at risk for illness, substance abuse and violence than the rest of us.

No, he didn't go after the safety net, but Harper did pull that 'old stock canadian' shit in the last election.  I like to think that is what sealed the Liberal majority.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1397
trump has Tough Guy appeal, for people who aren't over high school.
Hate to break it to you el jefe, but nobody gets over high school.
I got over high school.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1398
trump has Tough Guy appeal, for people who aren't over high school.
Hate to break it to you el jefe, but nobody gets over high school.
I got over high school.
I never got high school in the first place.
I did get the mumps though.
Are we there yet?

  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'
Re: The Trump Kompromat Theory
Reply #1399
^^^
l'epic this
Here's gunnerj running his discussion section