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Topic: Immigration/border patrol megathread (Read 5093 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #300
welp, guess who's not going to be moving back

why would you come back to this shithole from the Glorious Workers Social Paradise of Canada?

(is it because their economy is going to explode shortly thanks to their insane housing bubble?)

realistically we want to move to Europe to be closer to my partner's family, but we've also considered the possibility of living on the east coast for a few years. Problem is, there are more jobs in the US than in Canada so we stand a better chance of landing a job if we look in the states as well. But my partner is not American, so if Trump is closing down legal immigration avenues, that may not happen.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #301
I read some of the comments. :(

It isn't even the ranters, it's the ones who obviously believe they are well informed and practical individuals who are scary as shit.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #302
welp, guess who's not going to be moving back

why would you come back to this shithole from the Glorious Workers Social Paradise of Canada?

(is it because their economy is going to explode shortly thanks to their insane housing bubble?)

realistically we want to move to Europe to be closer to my partner's family, but we've also considered the possibility of living on the east coast for a few years. Problem is, there are more jobs in the US than in Canada so we stand a better chance of landing a job if we look in the states as well. But my partner is not American, so if Trump is closing down legal immigration avenues, that may not happen.
you said you're "partners".  so, uh, what's your business?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #303
I read some of the comments. :(

It isn't even the ranters, it's the ones who obviously believe they are well informed and practical individuals who are scary as shit.


I love how confidently morons talk about immigration without knowing a single thing about the process. Shit like "they were here for years but didn't bother applying for citizenship? ???3??q????t??????!!!!111???!" in response to stories about undocumented people being deported.

I wish people would learn something about it or shut the fuck up already.

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #304
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #305
welp, guess who's not going to be moving back

why would you come back to this shithole from the Glorious Workers Social Paradise of Canada?

(is it because their economy is going to explode shortly thanks to their insane housing bubble?)

realistically we want to move to Europe to be closer to my partner's family, but we've also considered the possibility of living on the east coast for a few years. Problem is, there are more jobs in the US than in Canada so we stand a better chance of landing a job if we look in the states as well. But my partner is not American, so if Trump is closing down legal immigration avenues, that may not happen.
you said you're "partners".  so, uh, what's your business?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

never go into stand-up.

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #306

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #307
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #308
I read some of the comments. :(

It isn't even the ranters, it's the ones who obviously believe they are well informed and practical individuals who are scary as shit.


I love how confidently morons talk about immigration without knowing a single thing about the process. Shit like "they were here for years but didn't bother applying for citizenship? ???3??q????t??????!!!!111???!" in response to stories about undocumented people being deported.

I wish people would learn something about it or shut the fuck up already.
They won't. Ignorance is bliss.

If they actually tried to learn basic facts about how immigration processes work, and why people immigrate in the first place, maybe some basic humanity might infiltrate their thought processes.

I can't find it now, but read last year or earlier that there are large numbers of Canadians living/working illegally in the US. Nobody (except some border cops ) pays attention to them or apparently worries about them 'stealing yer jerbs'.  As far back as 1986 I heard Americans joking about all the 'frostbacks' working under the table in Boston.

So it's just racism and xenophobia, they don't want to hear about reality.

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #309
Well, in the case of what Meep is talking about (i.e. immigrants thinking that illegal immigrants are somehow cheaters), there are more complex personal issues at play than just simply racism. Legally immigrating is a pain in the ass and realistically you may spend years being unable to work or otherwise live your life the way you want to. You may have to leave family members behind and bring them with you later. You have to jump through hoop after hoop to prove your worth. You have to demonstrate a fullworking knowledge of the civic system and of English. If you fail to do that at any point, you're done, and you're headed right back where you came from. It's a shitty abusive system, so people who have been through it or are part of a family or community who have gone through it are often pretty judgmental about people who bypass the system and just subsequently work under the table. This is bolstered by a media environment that really paints undocumented migrants in the worst light possible. PLUS legal immigrants, especially from Latin America, see illegal immigration as threatening their efforts to normalize being a Hispanic in the US, especially when some undocumented migrants get visibly involved in Aztlan bullshit.

So I can understand why a lot of immigrants are really judgmental about undocumented migrants, and when I was a lot younger I had a lot of judgments on that front that I am not proud of looking back. Some of this is just insufficient self-awareness, but a lot too is the sheer abusiveness of the immigration system itself and the high social and political cost of not appeasing white nativists.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #310
My MIL just posted this. I'm so fucking sick of this goddamn garbage.

http://www.wannalol.com/p/763380

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #311
My MIL just posted this. I'm so fucking sick of this goddamn garbage.

http://www.wannalol.com/p/763380
love how Juan legal is white and Juan illegal is dark.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #312
yo ty your mom sucks

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #313
My MIL just posted this. I'm so fucking sick of this goddamn garbage.

http://www.wannalol.com/p/763380
love how Juan legal is white and Juan illegal is dark.

It's just a coincidence, Testy! My MIL is definitely not racist, just like my brother and his gf are definitely not racist.

My MIL is super sweet to me and a very nice lady otherwise but this crap is honestly very upsetting. If illegals get all the free healthcare, then why the fuck is my grandmother rotting away at home with the only medical care she gets being the result of a family friend visiting her once as a favor and giving my mom the paperwork for when grandma finally dies?

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #314
Well, in the case of what Meep is talking about (i.e. immigrants thinking that illegal immigrants are somehow cheaters), there are more complex personal issues at play than just simply racism. Legally immigrating is a pain in the ass and realistically you may spend years being unable to work or otherwise live your life the way you want to. You may have to leave family members behind and bring them with you later. You have to jump through hoop after hoop to prove your worth. You have to demonstrate a fullworking knowledge of the civic system and of English. If you fail to do that at any point, you're done, and you're headed right back where you came from. It's a shitty abusive system, so people who have been through it or are part of a family or community who have gone through it are often pretty judgmental about people who bypass the system and just subsequently work under the table. This is bolstered by a media environment that really paints undocumented migrants in the worst light possible. PLUS legal immigrants, especially from Latin America, see illegal immigration as threatening their efforts to normalize being a Hispanic in the US, especially when some undocumented migrants get visibly involved in Aztlan bullshit.

So I can understand why a lot of immigrants are really judgmental about undocumented migrants, and when I was a lot younger I had a lot of judgments on that front that I am not proud of looking back. Some of this is just insufficient self-awareness, but a lot too is the sheer abusiveness of the immigration system itself and the high social and political cost of not appeasing white nativists.
Okay, I can see that, but I find myself zeroing in on the insufficient self-awareness: you know how hard it was, how long it took, and how much money it cost, and the circumstances that caused you to do it and the personal cost of leaving everyone behind. How can you then fault people with no money and no chance of making it through those bureaucratic hoops but even more reasons to move for at least attempting to get around them?

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #315
Well, in the case of what Meep is talking about (i.e. immigrants thinking that illegal immigrants are somehow cheaters), there are more complex personal issues at play than just simply racism. Legally immigrating is a pain in the ass and realistically you may spend years being unable to work or otherwise live your life the way you want to. You may have to leave family members behind and bring them with you later. You have to jump through hoop after hoop to prove your worth. You have to demonstrate a fullworking knowledge of the civic system and of English. If you fail to do that at any point, you're done, and you're headed right back where you came from. It's a shitty abusive system, so people who have been through it or are part of a family or community who have gone through it are often pretty judgmental about people who bypass the system and just subsequently work under the table. This is bolstered by a media environment that really paints undocumented migrants in the worst light possible. PLUS legal immigrants, especially from Latin America, see illegal immigration as threatening their efforts to normalize being a Hispanic in the US, especially when some undocumented migrants get visibly involved in Aztlan bullshit.

So I can understand why a lot of immigrants are really judgmental about undocumented migrants, and when I was a lot younger I had a lot of judgments on that front that I am not proud of looking back. Some of this is just insufficient self-awareness, but a lot too is the sheer abusiveness of the immigration system itself and the high social and political cost of not appeasing white nativists.
Okay, I can see that, but I find myself zeroing in on the insufficient self-awareness: you know how hard it was, how long it took, and how much money it cost, and the circumstances that caused you to do it and the personal cost of leaving everyone behind. How can you then fault people with no money and no chance of making it through those bureaucratic hoops but even more reasons to move for at least attempting to get around them?

Well, we see this sort of thing all the time. Look at some of the fights within feminism between second-wavers who made huge personal sacrifices to establish themselves and resent third-wavers who are trying to have it easy without jumping through all the same hoops. I think the same thing applies there. This is also the basis for some of the reactionary rants you see among some Black comedians targeting what they characterize as counterproductive stereotypical behavior within their own communities (e.g. Chris Rock's shtick that internet white boys like to quote as proof it's okay to say the n-word).

If you're making huge sacrifices to achieve something difficult, you have a personal investment in believing that these sacrifices are a necessary step towards achievement. People who try to bypass those sacrifices or who make a lot of noise about how they shouldn't have to make those sacrifices are going to be viewed as slackers or cheaters who are taking advantage of the hard work and personal losses of people who play by the rules. There will be resentment. That resentment will be multiplied if you then have to deal with the assumption by randos that you're also a slacker who tried to get by without following the rules because they just generalize all hispanics or women or jews or whoever together. It takes a lot of additional personal work to recognize that this isn't a case of someone harming you by not living up to their responsibilities, but the fact that racism harms everyone, not just the poorer people who are the direct targets of racist stereotypes.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #316
Well, in the case of what Meep is talking about (i.e. immigrants thinking that illegal immigrants are somehow cheaters), there are more complex personal issues at play than just simply racism. Legally immigrating is a pain in the ass and realistically you may spend years being unable to work or otherwise live your life the way you want to. You may have to leave family members behind and bring them with you later. You have to jump through hoop after hoop to prove your worth. You have to demonstrate a fullworking knowledge of the civic system and of English. If you fail to do that at any point, you're done, and you're headed right back where you came from. It's a shitty abusive system, so people who have been through it or are part of a family or community who have gone through it are often pretty judgmental about people who bypass the system and just subsequently work under the table. This is bolstered by a media environment that really paints undocumented migrants in the worst light possible. PLUS legal immigrants, especially from Latin America, see illegal immigration as threatening their efforts to normalize being a Hispanic in the US, especially when some undocumented migrants get visibly involved in Aztlan bullshit.

So I can understand why a lot of immigrants are really judgmental about undocumented migrants, and when I was a lot younger I had a lot of judgments on that front that I am not proud of looking back. Some of this is just insufficient self-awareness, but a lot too is the sheer abusiveness of the immigration system itself and the high social and political cost of not appeasing white nativists.
Okay, I can see that, but I find myself zeroing in on the insufficient self-awareness: you know how hard it was, how long it took, and how much money it cost, and the circumstances that caused you to do it and the personal cost of leaving everyone behind. How can you then fault people with no money and no chance of making it through those bureaucratic hoops but even more reasons to move for at least attempting to get around them?

Well, we see this sort of thing all the time. Look at some of the fights within feminism between second-wavers who made huge personal sacrifices to establish themselves and resent third-wavers who are trying to have it easy without jumping through all the same hoops. I think the same thing applies there. This is also the basis for some of the reactionary rants you see among some Black comedians targeting what they characterize as counterproductive stereotypical behavior within their own communities (e.g. Chris Rock's shtick that internet white boys like to quote as proof it's okay to say the n-word).

If you're making huge sacrifices to achieve something difficult, you have a personal investment in believing that these sacrifices are a necessary step towards achievement. People who try to bypass those sacrifices or who make a lot of noise about how they shouldn't have to make those sacrifices are going to be viewed as slackers or cheaters who are taking advantage of the hard work and personal losses of people who play by the rules. There will be resentment. That resentment will be multiplied if you then have to deal with the assumption by randos that you're also a slacker who tried to get by without following the rules because they just generalize all hispanics or women or jews or whoever together. It takes a lot of additional personal work to recognize that this isn't a case of someone harming you by not living up to their responsibilities, but the fact that racism harms everyone, not just the poorer people who are the direct targets of racist stereotypes.
I am a second wave feminist, and the furthest I've gotten in terms of resentment is occasionally rolling my eyes at the 'I'm not a feminist/I don't need feminism' -ists or the micro-aggressionists etc. I'm glad third wave feminism can examine the more deeply embedded harmful effects of centuries of western patriarchy etc. without having to deal with the stupid restrictions I had to fight. We made mistakes and engendered our own extremists and made a lot of progress imv.

It's sometimes a case of watching for teachable moments. In the early 80s, after trying for years to encourage a group of childcare workers to unionise - they had no experience with unions and were afraid of the impact on their jobs. It took a crisis for them to understand the need and advantages. It didn't help that the union also had to be educated.

There's no point in that kind of resentment.

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #317
Agreed there's no point. My argument is not that the resentment is useful but rather that the resentment is understandable and is something you see in a lot of minority/disadvantaged groups where some subset of that group makes huge sacrifices to try to better their situation through the system while others work outside the system or blame the system.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #318
Agreed there's no point. My argument is not that the resentment is useful but rather that the resentment is understandable and is something you see in a lot of minority/disadvantaged groups where some subset of that group makes huge sacrifices to try to better their situation through the system while others work outside the system or blame the system.
Alright, it can be understood. It's my view that it's important to test to destruction any oppressive established order, and that usually requires multiple angles of attack.

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #319
Sure. But in some cases, you're just too tired to keep fighting and all you want to do is try to make life easier for your children. "Smash the system" is great but you can't feed your kids on it.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #320
Okay, I can see that, but I find myself zeroing in on the insufficient self-awareness: you know how hard it was, how long it took, and how much money it cost, and the circumstances that caused you to do it and the personal cost of leaving everyone behind. How can you then fault people with no money and no chance of making it through those bureaucratic hoops but even more reasons to move for at least attempting to get around them?

In my experience, there's often a lot of the same "eww, the poors" attitude that you see just about everywhere.

Then there's the significant contingent of people who came here maybe not quite "the right way" but at a time when laws were more lax. My uncle and aunt got legal status when my cousin was born, but you can't do that anymore. Lots of people got various kinds of visas or took certain avenues that are simply not available anymore. When people like that and when people like my brother's gf who clearly broke the rules complain about other immigrants, that's when I get fucking pissed. "I made the sacrifices, so all the rest of you fuckers should have to as well!" doesn't work when you're expecting everyone else to make bigger sacrifices than you ever did.

  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #321

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #322
[nm
  • Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:50:18 PM by brugroffil

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #323

Re: Immigration/border patrol megathread
Reply #324
MA high court rules local/state cops can't detain people just because ICE asks them to

http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/07/24/sjc-ruling-sreynoun-lunn-case