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Messages - Lugubert

Quote from: Mark Shepherd
Goats can fit into a restoration ag system, but you have to understand the behaviors of goats. Their preferred food is browse.
my preferred food is filet mignon. What's your point?
Nobody is dragging you around in a mobile prison that keeps you from accessing filets but allows you just squirrel.
I've got news for you people... Real news, as opposed to fake news. Having them graze tall grass with seed heads and giving them browse (tree hay) as a supplement is a hell of a lot closer to Nature than having them graze the typical short, overgrazed pastures in my area and supplementing with massive amounts of grass hay and grain. Do you guys really believe that the typical goat owner in America truly allows goats to browse as they would in nature? If you do, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Can't you at least try to be consistent? First you make them "graze tall grass with seed heads" = grain, then, in the same sentence, you sound like grain = bad. In the next sentence, you agree that goats browse in nature, which you deny them in your tractor.

You didn't read that book, did you Dave? Because it sure as shit is not about world government.

Suspicion not confirmed: It looks like there was no "1984" edition in the series Classics Illustrated.
Trump's currently on the hot seat for calling African countries, El Salvador, and Haiti 'shithole countries' that he does not want to see immigrants from and that he'd rather see immigrants from Norway. The big notable difference here is that brown and black people live in 'shithole countries' and white people live in Norway. And this is just his latest slur against people of colour. This is who you endorse and voted for, Dave.

On a Swedish forum, one participant mentioned that one of the worst mass murderesses in the US was a Norwegian. I've tried to verify that by Googling, but haven't succeeded. Might have been a mix-up with the Norwegian terrorist, white right extremist Breivik, who killed 69 people in Norway.
But one thing we all know for sure without squinting or holding our noses is that Nazis are violent. So when Valor personally threatens someone with physical violence, that is definitely a Nazi thing to do.
More...Like Quote


The term "nazi", when not simply used as a derogatory term,  means either an adherent of National Socialism or someone who holds and ideology that is considered racist and/or ultra-nationalist and authoritarian. They tend to idolize their leaders, have an "our people first" mentality, and tend to scapegoat groups of people - real or imagined.

Some of the more rabid Trumpians are a bit nazi-esque: they have their Dear Leader, the blame most bad things on a perceived hostile conspiracy they call "globalist", they define an in-group of "real" Americans that are supposedly under threat from this conspiracy, they are strongly nationalist.

Violence is often a consequence of this kind of thinking, but it is not a necessary part of it.
Regarding threatening physical violence as a criterion for Nazism, Dave, what about "My red button is bigger than yours"?
So Dave, was slavery ever OK, like maybe in biblical times?

Your god certainly seemed to think so, what with all his rules for keeping slaves and all.

Yes, I'm still waiting for Dave's opinion on the going price when you sell your daughter according to Exodus 21:7.
Windows? Doors? What on Earth are those? Never heard of them before!

I'll Google a bit to find out what they are and get back to you. Thanks for mentioning them!

Considering your general level of knowledge of the world that surrounds you, it is easy to believe that you really mean the quoted part.
Ok point to your team.
So who all else is on your "team"?

Other than Richard Spencer and the other "very fine people" who marched at Charlottesville?

Reminds me of
... well, you know, they're just a bunch of real sweet guys, you know, who just happen to
want to kill everybody.

But that was, of course, His High Judgmental Supremacy Judiciary Pag referring to the people of Krikkit.

Back to slavery and the Bible. I think I have asked here, perhaps even asked Dave, what the price nowadays is for selling your daughter to slavery. I don't think I got an answer.
in my opinion the correct response would be to let them go.
And, apparently, that would also be your opinion if the reason California decided to opt out was that they wanted to adopt 1850's- style racial slavery.

Which would Make America Small Again. Well done, Dave.
Correct my calculations if I'm wrong, but that would be 3 cups of milk a day?
I don't need calculations to know that three glasses of milk per day will be at least two too many for me.
Was the Haudenosaunee Confederacy libertarian? Or something else? I do like what I've read about it so far and it was Charles Mann's book 1491 where I was introduced to it.

Certainly not. IMO, there is no useful white man term for the kind of government/decision-making style embraced by the Five (later Six) Nations. In fact, this is one reason anthropologists continually, and up until recently, failed to grasp much of the history and tradition of the Nations. They only talked to the men, and while the men told their part, the other half of their history was held within the women's oral tradition, and much of that was lost before white anthropologists and historians thought to investigate.
speaking of women, Charles Mann writes that women had much greater equality and Authority in society than  women in White Society.

I don't know why Siri capitalizes letters like that.

I don't know why you thought that was a significant response to what I posted.

Also, why do you reference Mann when you could just link to the current Haudenosaunee Confederacy's website? Don't you think the actual living people might have a more significant understanding and opinion of their own culture and governance style?
No, he doesn't think that.  ;)

Exactly. Like he won't believe black African women describing their reality, but he will readily believe a casual white visitor.
Trump got elected because he's a good businessman. And Trump is a good businessman because he got elected. What part is not clear?
That's Dave running circular reasoning round us.
By the way, the farmer down the road is willing to offer as many as a dozen goats and a small heifer for your daughter, Dave. And we don't *know* he wants her for sex, so that's ok. I mean who knows what the custom is with child-brides in west-cork, and since we have no evidence, we should just assume it is all fine.

I'm intrigued. What is the going price in different cultures? In the Old Testament, I only  find instructions on how to treat daughters after their having been sold. At 75, I could find good use of a young girl in several capacities. Any offers, Dave?
Dave, what do you think the annexation of Crimea was about if not Russian expansionism?
You'll find it difficult to find quotes of mine where I in any way defend socialism (the way I, not clueless USAians, define it) or communism. But the Crimea thing looks to me that Vlad the Putin wants to recover to Russia what was rather recently illegally given away.

Lots of somewhat similar problems, but where to draw the line for accepting historical errors and injusticies. Tibet used to be a part of a Chinese ruler's realm, but I don't approve of the contemporary flooding of Tibet by Han Chinese people and businesses, however much Tibetans have gained in being freed from monastery vassalage and acquiring fairly modern health care, schools and universities.

And the total Middle East shambles, created by Europeans, and nowadays by US meddling, without a clue on history or what relationships matter there.

Still, it might be amusing to read any Dave opinion of his own that he hasn't quote mined from somewhere else...
An adult cow will either go over the top of your panels or just tear that contraption apart quickly. And if the 'roof' isn't attached at the bottom, she could easily push it up.
Please set up a video feed?

I don't remember if I actually wrote it out, but my guesses when I asked Dave what would happen if the cage tries to move a resting cow, were total demolition of the disturbance factor or a stop blowing the winch fuses.
It's goofy. Not sustainable. Not duplicatable.
This you state with absolute certainty having never taken an afternoon to visit the place, despite it being a short drive away.

How is it "not sustainable", given that's been operating and actually sustaining people for years 2 decades? Contrast with Davegoatopia which is not sustaining 1 person on 10 acres but has managed to mutilate trees and is littered with animal carcasses.

Now now, we don't know if it's scattered with animal carcasses.  He could have thrown them out of the car window during his part time job of burning fossil fuels and selling rubbish to gullible rubes.
Another possibility would be that he has buried them in a compost heap. But that would be in line with returning minerals to the ground, and might look like he has understood some aspects of no input. Would be too close to admitting that he has followed advice from people who do sustainability.
... seem ... seem ... seem ... whatever ...

How many persons will be convinced?
So what do you say to the teenage girl who's stepfather rapes her? Or the woman who's condom broke, and just needs a morning after pill? Or the woman who wanted a child but their child will be stillborn? And what about all those miscarriages? Why aren't you railing against God for all those?

And what about parents who find that the potential person has a chromosome disorder and never will raise above the intellectual level of, say, a 5-year-old, and will need care and surveillance 24/7? Is it even ethical to let the defective unborn sabotage the parents' lives and/or their partnership?

Did you comment on the OT examples?
So, Dave returned to this thread. Nobody is surprised that he won't address the thread title topic. OT views, Dave. Do you agree or oppose?
Guys.  And gals

I promise you that I will engage you on this topic on the other thread.

I don't believe you.

Nor do I. A pity; it would have been interesting to see him defending (or not) OT views on abortions. BTW, would you label the case in Ex 21 as induced or spontaneous abortion?

You agreed that there was a "disparity" regarding your response to posts by men and by women here.  You said it was something to do with a "pendulum".

What is this "pendulum" that apparently causes you to treat men and women differently on this forum?

Another missing interesting piece of information.
What is your responsibility to , for example, a girl who tells you that her stepdad rapes her, and she doesn't want to carry his baby? 
Will you follow up with the stepdad?
While you're at it, Dave, and refuse to vent your ideas in the other thread, do you think that miscarriages amount to murder as well? Should the women be prosecuted?
Don't worry I'm not planning on waltzing out and standing on street corners trying to talk to pregnant women anytime soon.  and if I ever do, I will do it with a recognized (female) expert helping me.

 my reason for bringing this up in the first place is simply to point out the massive HYPOCRISY of caring so much about dying animals while at the same time caring so little about dying humans.

Which is predicated on the idea that we think that abortions cause suffering and/or that what we mind about your dying animals is that they are dead.

We are, I think I can say, primarily concerned with SUFFERING.  Most of us don't think that abortion causes SUFFERING to the fetus. We do think that your animals SUFFERED (unnecessarily) when they died.

Note that nobody has objected to the idea of you regularly killing your rabbits to eat.

Get it now?
Whoo boy!  I think you're right ... I should take this to the other thread ... this could get ugly.
When you do, please comment on the OT prescription for bringing on an abortion to an unfaithful wife.
I'm open to any and all ideas.  that's one reason I post here.

 like I have said many times, the only animals I have real experience with are goats and cattle and sheep. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to chickens and rabbits and pigs.

I see, you have biblical experience with goats, cattle and sheep but are still getting up to speed with chickens and rabbits and pigs!

Dave stay out of my backyard!!!
Right, that must be the source of his wisdom. I'm eagerly awaiting his reports on experimenting with rods before the flocks.
A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked to make a point rather than to elicit an answer.
How much starting capital?  What reason do you have for thinking the land owner will finance?

Once upon a time, when I still thought that it would be possible to extract some useful ideas from Dave's fantasies, I asked him how much money I would need before arriving at a no input, steady state setup in Sweden. I don't remember getting even a rough guess for an answer.
We all have real problems, Dave.  But regarding this particular one, I'd just say: Matthew 7:3-5

Pingu, I find you guilty of Mt 7:6.