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Messages - JonF

1
Some people do have a trait we call "conscience". You wouldn't understand.
2
LolRunning and hiding from three most recent abysmal failure.
FIFY
3
I saw the exhibition at the Peabody Essex Museum.  Incredible!
4
Lol
You have unaddressed issues waiting in the hierarchies thread.

Too scary to address, amirite?  Just another badger for am epic fail.
5
I wrote
Quote
Schwinn Cobra (made up name)
-Schwinn Mountain 10 speeds
--Schwinn 10 speeds
---Schwinn bikes
----Bikes
-----Human powered land vehicles / Motor powered land vehicles
------Powered land vehicles
-------Land Vehicles
--------Vehicles
---------Manufactured products
----------Manmade products
-----------Inanimate objects

And someone wants to add a hybrid bike ... ok ...

Inanimate
-Manmade
--Manufactured
---Vehicles
----Land vehicles
-----Two wheeled
------Human power / Motor power / Hybrid
-------Schwinn electric hybrid (forgot the name)

Voila!

7 levels
And another fail.

Human powered boat:



So under "land vehicles" you have "human powered".  Under the implied "water vehicles" you need another "human powered".

Oh, and,



Whoopsie, yet another "human powered" category under "Air vehicles".

Why, is there more?  Of course:



A second motor-powered category under "four wheeled"!!

Want more? It's really easy to spot the failures.
Scares ya shitless, amirite?
6
And, yet again, having failed miserably, yet again, to support his silly claims Dave skedaddles as fast as he can from the truth.
7
Translation: I like burgers and I won't eat my broccoli. I won't, I won't , I won't, you can't make me!


Dave there are millions of vegetarians and vegans out there who have a perfectly healthy diet that includes no meat, no dairy, and no, or very few, animal products. You are an idiot.
Every "vegan" I've ever met has at least some animal products in their diets.
Every vegan I've ever met is really a vegan and eats no animal products.
8
OK well ... if you're not convinced ... sorry.  Your loss. I got nuthin'
FIFY.
9
I wrote
Quote
Schwinn Cobra (made up name)
-Schwinn Mountain 10 speeds
--Schwinn 10 speeds
---Schwinn bikes
----Bikes
-----Human powered land vehicles / Motor powered land vehicles
------Powered land vehicles
-------Land Vehicles
--------Vehicles
---------Manufactured products
----------Manmade products
-----------Inanimate objects

And someone wants to add a hybrid bike ... ok ...

Inanimate
-Manmade
--Manufactured
---Vehicles
----Land vehicles
-----Two wheeled
------Human power / Motor power / Hybrid
-------Schwinn electric hybrid (forgot the name)

Voila!

7 levels
And another fail.

Human powered boat:



So under "land vehicles" you have "human powered".  Under the implied "water vehicles" you need another "human powered".

Oh, and,



Whoopsie, yet another "human powered" category under "Air vehicles".

Why, is there more?  Of course:



A second motor-powered category under "four wheeled"!!

Want more? It's really easy to spot the failures.
10
I'm thinking that 99.9% of those professional scientists have not concerned themselves with "nested hierarchies" at all.
Nobody cares about your drug-addled fantasies.

 
Quote
Which makes me wonder why it is so important to you
Because, as has been said over and over and over and over and over again, the nested hierarchy is a property of the set of living organisms and it is very unusual for a set to have that property.  Such unusual findings demand explanation.  Your failed attempts to demonstrate that the property is usual notwithstanding.

Duh.
11
You are way behind
"only that it doesn't follow the rule still" descibes the current situation perfectly.

Plus, you are ignoring the detailed and devastating critiques.

(We know why).
12



Schwinn Cobra (made up name)
-Schwinn Mountain 10 speeds
--Schwinn 10 speeds
---Schwinn bikes
----Bikes
-----Human powered land vehicles
------Powered land vehicles
-------Land Vehicles
--------Vehicles
---------Manufactured products
----------Manmade products
-----------Inanimate objects

Ok, teacher!  Grade my paper!

Dave, it would be really useful if you would actually READ what we are suggesting you do.

START WITH A SET OF ITEMS.

You are not distinguishing between categories and items.  Start with a set of items, then features that a subset of them share.

Don't start with nesting categories and then try to find things to fit in them.  Nested hierarchies are a property of set of objects.  You need to start with the set of objects then find out the extent to which their features allow them to form a nested hierarchy.

That thing you just made above - there is only one ITEM - the Schwinn Cobra.  All the other items are CATEGORIES. 


you are never happy
If you could comprehend her criticism and act on it she would be happy.

She's doomed to remain sad.
13
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
That reads like fiction, tbh. :unsure:
It does.

So does everything.
14
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
Could they actually have done this?

https://patribotics.blog/2017/05/17/comeys-fbi-computer-illegally-accessed-data-given-to-russian-diplomats/

Quote
Exclusive: Sources close to the intelligence community report that Director Comey's FBI computer was illegally accessed immediately after he was dismissed from his post. They further report that 'removable media' was used in the commission of this crime. 'Removable media' is a category describing physical devices that can be placed into a computer, either to download information or to upload it, such as a memory card, a USB stick, a removable hard drive, a thumb drive or similar items.

Sources further report that a person or persons allied to Donald Trump passed data accessed from Director Comey's computer to Russian diplomats. It is not known when or how this took place. A piece of removable media containing all the data in question has been recovered from hostile actors, sources say, and is now in the possession of the Justice Department.
15
It's hard to believe that I went through all this in excruciating detail with simple pictures and explanations and everything and these people with PhD's still can't get their heads around it.
We have our heads around it.

We want to see if it works.

Nobody's tried.
16
Also, by the way, Dave, vehicles are part of non-life. If you don't think vehicles-life is an apples-apples comparison, why not vehicles-mammals? Vehicles are part of non-life, mammals are part of life. Sounds like apples-apples to me. Mammals nest, vehicles don't.

/thread
Dave is very welcome to try with a set of natural non-living things.  How about:

Mountain
Ocean
Glacier
River
Geyser
Volcano
Waterfall
Cliff
I was thinking more along the lines of ...

Granite boulder
Sewing needle
The Mona Lisa
A Schwinn 10 speed bike
The Milky Way galaxy
A helium atom
Protons

Etc
OK, double the number of items and produce the hierarchy that is so easy to find (according to you).
17
The fact that you can't do it very deeply for vehicles simply means that you are not making an apples to apples comparison. 

Compare a "life" NH to a "non-life" NH and get back to me.

kthxbye
It's your idea, you do it.
18
In fact, since you are so good at this, why don't YOU try nesting it and see what happens ... and you can use whatever nesting rules you want, so long as you apply the same rules to both the "life" and the "non-life" hierarchies.
Pingu did it.

There's only one set of rules.
19
"try it"

Try nesting vehicles?

Why not try nesting "non-life"?  That would provide much deeper nesting and would be more of an "apples to apples" comparison to a nested hierarchy of "life" don't you think?
Go for it.  At least five levels deep and ten wide at the bottom level.
20
Land based gas/ethanol up to 17/83%

Quote
For modern vehicles with parts that are compatible with ethanol, the only adjustment that would be needed is in the OBD-II software. Flex-fuel vehicles became all the rage a few years back, because automakers get special credits toward federal fuel-economy standards. Because the credits are weighted toward bigger "footprint" vehicles like pickups and SUVs, you see a lot of U.S.-made "Big Three" (Ford, FCA [Fiat-Chrysler], General Motors) vehicles that are flex-fuel. These are some of the most popular models on the road, including:

Ford's F-150 (as seen above, at the Orange County Auto Show last October) and Expedition
Chevy's Silverado and Suburban
Dodge's Charger and Ram 1500
21
Amphibious Diesel and gas powered:

Navy Adopts Hybrid-Electric Amphibious Assault Ships

Quote
Hybrid-electric propulsion systems use a gas turbine engine as well as an electric motor and diesel generator. The electric motors can help propel the ship at speeds up to around 12 knots and the generator can help produce electricity for the ship. When it comes to traveling at speeds greater than 12 knots or so, the ship can then rely upon its gas-turbine engine.  At the same time, the generators can provide on-board power for many of the ships systems such as sensors, weapons and other electronics, Navy officials indicated.

The hybrid-drive allows the ship to propel itself using either electric drives or a traditional gas turbine engine.  Electric propulsion and on-board electrical power generation are both integrated through what's called a main reduction gear (MRG), a portion of the ship's propulsion system which helps convert energy into the revolutions needed for the propellers to move the ship through the water, according to Navy officials.
22
Look at the rule he establishes for his hierarchic system.
And look how he violates his own rule in his transport "hierarchy" .


Oh?  How's that?
It's exactly equivalent to our definition of a nested hierarchy.

You can't have any overlapping containers, you can't have two containers with the same label, and you must add any item to all the containers in which it fits (accomplished by adding it to one container which is contained by all the other characteristics of the item).

That's why his transport hierarchy, and yours, isn't a nested hierarchy.  For example, consider a hovercraft.  It has the characteristic "goes on land".  It also has the characteristic "goes on water".  You can't find any place in that hierarchy where ONE container includes BOTH of those characteristics.  The only way to add hovercraft to that hierarchy is to put it in two places, which violates the nesting.

Not that you are capable of comprehending that.

Not true. You can simply add another category ... "Amphibious" ... hmm ...  seems like we do that same thing with living things ...
No, we don't do the same with living things.  And then you have the Diesel/gas powered issue.  And the next issue. And the next issue.
23
Look at the rule he establishes for his hierarchic system.
And look how he violates his own rule in his transport "hierarchy" .


Oh?  How's that?
It's exactly equivalent to our definition of a nested hierarchy.

You can't have any overlapping containers, you can't have two containers with the same label, and you must add any item to all the containers in which it fits (accomplished by adding it to one container which is contained by all the other characteristics of the item).

That's why his transport hierarchy, and yours, isn't a nested hierarchy.  For example, consider a hovercraft.  It has the characteristic "goes on land".  It also has the characteristic "goes on water".  You can't find any place in that hierarchy where ONE container includes BOTH of those characteristics.  The only way to add hovercraft to that hierarchy is to put it in two places, which violates the nesting.

Not that you are capable of comprehending that.

Oh, it seems you missed dave's pathetic attempt to squeeze hovercrafts in his hierarchy. He said they group in "Air". Implying that the group refers to vehicles that USE air to move (nevermind that, in the past, he had explicitly said it was about vehicles that fly in the air).

Of course, the implications of that were hilarious. :D
I saw that.  He also didn't realize that he can't ignore a characteristic that is a container and the item has.
24
Look at the rule he establishes for his hierarchic system.
And look how he violates his own rule in his transport "hierarchy" .


Oh?  How's that?
It's exactly equivalent to our definition of a nested hierarchy.

You can't have any overlapping containers, you can't have two containers with the same label, and you must add any item to all the containers in which it fits (accomplished by adding it to one container which is contained by all the other characteristics of the item).

That's why his transport hierarchy, and yours, isn't a nested hierarchy.  For example, consider a hovercraft.  It has the characteristic "goes on land".  It also has the characteristic "goes on water".  You can't find any place in that hierarchy where ONE container includes BOTH of those characteristics.  The only way to add hovercraft to that hierarchy is to put it in two places, which violates the nesting.

Not that you are capable of comprehending that.
25
You know, for all the damage trump has done, I can't help thinking that I'd rather have this level of ineffectuality in the white house than what Cruz would have brought.
Yeah... but what about what Pence will bring?  He's just as evil but he's competent.