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Messages - JonF

  it has been reported that these "very fine people" were not marching with Nazis but had gathered separately and peaceably to protest statue removal.
It has also been reported, by every outlet except a non-reporter who wasn't there, that there was no group of peaceful protestors. Just Nazis and anti-Nazis.
Dick Durbin had a rough night thanks to our boy Posobiec, whom Donald Trump RT'ed ... again ... lie about him and call him a Nazi if you like ... but he's a sharp cookie ...

Digging up that kind of factual history is good journalism folks ...

Lol go watch the rest of the video Posobiec snipped a few seconds from - you can quote-mine videos too, Dave,

And wow, here we have Trump retweeting the guy (Posobiec) who placed a poster saying Rape Melania. You'd think Trump would care enough about his wife to never have anything to do with the lying liar that did that.
I don't know if anything you are saying here is true. 
You could find out easily if you cared about truth.
Dick Durbin had a rough night thanks to our boy Posobiec, whom Donald Trump RT'ed ... again ... lie about him and call him a Nazi if you like ... but he's a sharp cookie ...

Digging up that kind of factual history is good journalism folks ...
Problem is Durbin didn't call Trump a racist because of chain migration.  He called Trump a racist because of the famous shithole comment.

He did not call for an end to chain migration in that video.  He recounted facts about the DREAM act with no indication of his position on the subject.

 Making stuff up is bad journalism, but you swallow it whole..

When I mentioned that fact to him, he said, "Haitians, do we need more Haitians?" Then he went on and started to describe the immigration from Africa that was being protected in this bipartisan measure. That's when he used these vile and vulgar comments, calling the nations they come from "shitholes," The exact word used by the president -- not just once but repeatedly.

That was the nature of this conversation. When it came to the issue of, quote, "chain migration," I said to the president, do you realize how painful that term is to so many people? African-Americans believe they migrated to America in chains and when you talk about chain migration, it hurts them personally.

He said, "Oh, that's a good line." And then when I talked to him about the impact this has on family unification in a nation that values families with the flag as the most important symbols of our future, they scoffed at this notion. It was a heartbreaking moment. But I will tell you this, I'm not going to quit. I have a singular mission. And the mission is this: To give these DREAMers and as many members of their families as possible a chance to be part of America's future in a legal status.
Democratic U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin on Friday ripped President Donald Trump for using "hate-filled, vile and racist" language when talking about immigrants from Haiti and Africa, even as Trump took to Twitter to deny he made the comments.[/;quote]

How is this different from how fascists behave?

1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

  • exalts  nation and often race above the individual
  • severe economic and social regimentation
  • centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader
  • forcible suppression of opposition

Violence alone doth not a fascist make. Only the right-wing meets the full definition.

Got yourself some kick-ass woo-woo there, Davie.

I'm content to wait and see. Not worried.
Leftists and right-wing fascists are the same. I see no difference. They both consume fake news and they're both lawless and they both advocate violence to get their way.
Davinating fascism.
He believes in the depths of his soul that the right-wing bubble is revealed Truth[1] and everything outside is fabricated by the Illuminatti-evolutionist-freemason-Bilderberg-Bohemian Grove cabal.
Except for the occasional item he doesn't like.
Meh. What does it matter?

America is slipping way down the international league tables in anything in which people measure contentment or security
Oh?  How do YOU measure such things?
The opinions of the people involved.
Next read It Can't Happen Here.
As Trump thought only blacks were on TANF.
Hey, Dave, who got the lion's share by far of the tax cuts? The club or the ordinary Americans?
Yup, nothing but lies. He couldn't tell the truth if he wanted to[1].
He doesn't.
Geez.  JonF has become so dishonest he's not even worth reading anymore.

He said "not all Haitians are worthless shits." You consider that dishonest?

Oh, you're probably referring to Jons comments about the jobs business.
No, I did make a mistake about goat bloat.

Dave's so terrified by the other two topics he can't even call them lies.
You are telling me that someone said "Robert E Lee owned slaves... Therefore we should make a statue for him" ... ?
No, they said "Robert E Lee owned slaves... Therefore we should make a statue for him to remind the darkies that they still aren't real free human beings."
Dave, did you read, or just Hawkins Trump's statement? Look again, particularly at the sentence immediately after the part you bolded. He explicitly says you had neo-nazis and white nationalists in that group, along with "many other people". What is that supposed to mean other than these supposed "very fine people" were marching with the fucking Nazis?
how do you know that it wasn't the opposite of what you say? For example, "very fine people" show up to protest the statue removal for legitimate reasons... that is they don't want history erased... and then a bunch of Nazis show up and pile on and do offensive things? And by the way Trump made a very good point that both George Washington and Robert E Lee owned slaves.
We've seen the videos. We've read the eyewitness reports. We know who got permits. Neo-Nazis and white supremacists all the way down

You obviously know nothing about Charlottesville. You are making up bullshit based on nothing more than your compulsion to make pitiful fantasies about Trump and his neo-Nazi and white supremacist cabal.

They are lower than whaleshit.

You are complicit. 
You're lying again.  I've identified plenty of his lies.  Just ID'ed one this morning.
Where's the lie, Dave?

The Carrier folks who thought Trump was going to save their jobs (because he said that he was going to save their jobs) just lost their jobs. Who lied in this case?
Yeah, but Trump will bring back those coal jobs destroyed by cheap natural gas.
Annny day now.  Probably right after Mexico pays to build that wall.
Actually he's dropping safety standards so more of them will die of black lung... thus opening up more jobs!
You're lying again.  I've identified plenty of his lies.  Just ID'ed one this morning.
Where's the lie, Dave?
He was referring to goat bloat.

The Carrier folks who thought Trump was going to save their jobs (because he said that he was going to save their jobs) just lost their jobs. Who lied in this case?
I don't think Trump lied in this case.  He's too stupid and deluded to figure out what was obviously going to happen.  Even though Carrier announced they were going to spend the money on automation shortly after the deal was struck.
You're lying again.  I've identified plenty of his lies.  Just ID'ed one this morning.
I made a mistake and misremembered what was said.  That was an honest error, I was wrong but did not lie.  Where are the lies in the two messages above, Davetie-doodles?
To be fair, when he was denying the shithole comment he was saying that he denied calling Haiti a shithole.
How so?
Quote from: Trump
The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made - a big setback for DACA!
Typical Trump weasel move: pronoun with no antecedent; passive voice:  "This was not the language used" ?  What's "this" ?  The obvious conclusion is that it's the widely reported "shithole" language. But good luck anyone pinning him down on that, let alone what countries he was (not) referring to in whatever language was (not) used (by whom).

Quote from: Trump
Never said anything derogatory about Haitians other than Haiti is, obviously, a very poor and troubled country.
::) Right.
Haitians are very fine people.
It's just their country is a shithole.
Never said "take them out".
Pretty sure that's a lie.

I saw a Twitter comment this morning something to the effect of ... Haiti was founded only about 20 years later than the USA and they still can't feed themselves ...

Well ... let's look at at that from the perspective of a Sustainable Agriculture Guy like myself ...

10 million people ...

10,000 square mile land area ...

That's 1000 people per square mile.  640 acres in a square mile.  That's 1.56 people per acre.

You'd have to get EVERY ACRE producing about 1.2 million food calories per year to achieve food self sufficiency for Haiti.

That would be a challenge to say the least. 

More practically, you'd need to get say 60% of the land area producing 2 million food calories per year.

Even that would be tough.  Theoretically possible.  But probably impossible politically.
How many of those acres are arable?

And the unspoken lie... even if Haiti is a shithole not all Haitians are worthless shits.
Um, no.

Carrier is laying off the people Trump bribed to keep on the payroll.  They used the bribe to buy automation making the worker's jobs superfluous.

Got any instance of factory jobs coming back because of Trump's actions? (Be sure it's because of him, he's claimed credit for a lot of stuff with which had had nothing to do.)
Listen, Vox, let me school you a moment on truth ... and science ... the two are closely related ...

1) People here are saying "Trump is a racist blah blah blah" but they are basing that on a quote mine of his words.
You have not demonstrated any quote mine. You just linked to a transcript.  I don't see any quote mining.  Well?

2) My "Trump seems to believe" comment is MY COMMENT based on ACTUALLY READING TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS
Nobody's arguing  that Trump doesn't believe that. The point is that he made it up, as he does so many of his beliefs. What evidence supports his belief[1]?
I'm not taking your word for any fucking details.  I don't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Trump seems to believe that there were (a) people there peacefully protesting the removal of the statues and that they had honorable reasons - namely, they don't want history to be erased, and (b) there were Nazis that showed up the next day and engaged in a very offensive march - and he rightly condemned them.

So STFU until you can get your facts right.
What Trump seems to believe isn't evidence. In fact it strongly suggests he's wrong.

Two groups.  With which one did they march?
"Dave, our point is that you don't get to be called "a very fine person" when you march with actual fucking Neo-Nazis and white supremacists"

I'm not sure that these "very fine persons" actually marched with actual fucking Neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
Who were marching with the self-declared Nazis and white supremacists, then? Seems there were only two sides to be on.
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.
So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.
Nope.  I support THAT marriage.  That one marriage because it was reported to be a happy one.  Other marriages with 15 year old brides are not so happy.  Someone should try to influence the tribe to change those situations.

This is a science forum.

Take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else please.
Here's where the intellectual dishonesty creeps in.

Noone has any information to offer on that particular marriage. Not David, not our eponymous travel writer. Noone.

What has been presented is an impression of the wedding ceremony, by a guest, held in front of a large crowd many of whom are embedded in the culture and have varying degrees of dependence on the groom.

The details and particulars of the marriage itself remain unknown, though numerous others have commented on such things and David has been directed to links documenting such on a number of occasions.

It's all part of David's all/some/none deficiency.
She lived in the village and made friends there.  Jesus Christ.  She was qualified to give an opinion.
But not as qualified as the Maasai women who lived the nightmare.