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  • TalkRational: for the love of god somebody kill this thread.

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Messages - Big D

I thought this was an interesting take on differences between Canada and US politically, even if it massively undersells the geographic isolation issue.

speculatively though, there might be some other vector for class consciousness in canada, or the social democratic welfare state is so well established as a needed social good that you just can't get people to vote "against their interests" in that respect. here, education is kinda the only way most americans can get the idea in their head that the rich are not their friends and our welfare state is so anemic and dysfunctional that you could almost forgive poor folks for not realizing that a stronger welfare state is in their interests (because they have no direct experience of such a thing). also, racism (which education can also help combat).
You may have nailed something here. Even Harper never considered attacking our social safety net, though he tried nibbling at the edges a bit; he was well aware he'd lose the next election if he did. Most (not all, selfish arseholes are found everywhere in the world) Canadians are ashamed of the fact we still have a homeless population and indigenous people are so much more at risk for illness, substance abuse and violence than the rest of us.

No, he didn't go after the safety net, but Harper did pull that 'old stock canadian' shit in the last election.  I like to think that is what sealed the Liberal majority.
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
It's not about not feeling connected to your past so much as there isn't some desperate need to connect one's self with some minor aristocrat.

Like, my family keeps the history we have, although bits and pieces are lost each generation. But aside from "so and so was a cohein" there's no major effort to connect us with aristocracy.

To an extent, I think this may reflect differing perceptions of what history is. History is a thing that happened to my family. Much of the family stories that have been held on through generations are stories about what people did when history happened. I feel like WASPs see history as a thing that white aristocrats and war heroes did, so there's this desperate need to connect themselves to these Great Men of history, because otherwise who are they.

Really? Do you even know any white people? Because that's not my experience. And, hey, my parents' thing was oral history. Yah, limited to Scandinavians, but 3000 interviews later, that's not what emerged.

Sure, my paternal grandfather was a racist, but then he hated Germans and Russians and English and Chinese and Nigerians and pretty much everyone else who wasn't Swedish and, specifically, from Dalarna. Wasn't too happy about my Dad marrying a Dane and producing half-breeds.

Most of those people interviewed were just ordinary people. They didn't display any of the traits you so vainly hold onto as reasons for your problems. They cared about their families, their children, just like parents do all over the world. For the most part, they didn't give a fuck who was king or even if there was a king or a count or a president. They were just trying to survive and perhaps, if they were lucky, to leave their kids something of an advantage. In fact, neither did. I think the grand total from both families was less than $100.  Two of my great-grandfathers had two families, their first ones wiped out by disease or starvation. Some died in WWI, being US citizens, leaving no one behind.

Are there assholes, in every culture, that think the accomplishments of their ancestors bestow upon them special rights and privileges, sure. Then again, there's the rest of us. The 95% who don't. Trump is one of those that thinks his father's and grandfather's success somehow translate to his being special. Unfortunately, he's right, he's special all right, like the short bus variety, except in his case, it's simply his ego that's responsible. Frankly, I'm surprised Putin hasn't had him assassinated just because he's become such a joke.
I think teeth was saying less than you thought he was.  he isn't saying white people who talk genealogy want to feel connected to historical atrocities or racism, etc., and/or are proud of any family connection they might find to that kind of thing.  he's just saying they tend to have an idealized view of the history they want to feel connected to, which leaves out a lot of the ugliness, whereas nonwhite or nonwasp people don't have the luxury of separating family lore from atrocities, because they were often one and the same.  and I'm sure he is right.
That's a Texas sized 10-4...second season might be better than the first.