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Messages - Lugubert

1
Drifting on, my best IKEA memory is from one afternoon when I had bought a chair in IKEA London, and was driving back to Bracknell where I was working at the time. Took a wrong turn on exiting, and got lost increasingly deep in London. No map, no useful signs, and this was way before any satnavs. Fortunately, the sky was reasonably clear, so I realized that I could navigate westwards towards the sun until I hit the M25. I knew that junction, so from there the rest of the drive was unproblematic.
2
If your much-vaunted methods work as you claim there should be a visible difference between areas the goatbox has been dragged over and areas it has not.

I'm not seeing it.
I suggest glasses. Or contacts. Or perhaps Lasix surgery.

It seems that Dave is the one who might need LASIK surgery. Lasix is a diuretic.
3
Just as David can do the very same test, by posting photos showing the difference between the 'rested' land which didn't have a goat box dragged over it last year and its depauperate cover, and the lush green tracks left where said goat box was dragged.

It's Spring David, won't be a better time.
The photos will be interesting. In the last pics of the goat box that I remember, I saw no signs of it having been dragged at all.
4
The Donald wants to destroy the USofA.

How else can you interpret that, in the running for president campaign, he said that Chancellor Angela Merkel was destroying Germany.

Soon afterwards, on asked if he admired any politician, he mentioned Ms. Merkel.

Interesting alternative interpretations include amnesia, and general insanity.
5
Dave,

Not long ago, you implied that there are farmers who use "anhydrous ammonia", as fertilizer if I understood you correctly. I'm intrigued. Please explain how they apply the gas, and what effect they anticipate, and how they avoid getting poisoned.
For the purposes of the current discussion, anhydrous ammonia is the same as ammonium nitrate.
[/Dave]
Spoilsport
6
Dave,

Not long ago, you implied that there are farmers who use "anhydrous ammonia", as fertilizer if I understood you correctly. I'm intrigued. Please explain how they apply the gas, and what effect they anticipate, and how they avoid getting poisoned.
7
No. You're wrong as usual. And the reason you're wrong is because you ignore data. In this case the data from the Weston Price foundation that I have posted several times here.
Let me guess. What you have posted contains no "data" as everyone but you would define it. And you know it, and so you don't dare to post a link to what's probably just assertions.
8
All you have to do to find out that cropland which has been under tillage for hundreds of years is depleted of organic matter and plant nutrients is to try planting something and not applying any fertilizer.  In fact why don't you come to my area and suggest that to one of the local farmers. Tell him to plant his corn and not apply any anhydrous ammonia.  And whatever else they apply.  He will look at you really really funny.
He will look at you really funny if you think that he applies anhydrous ammonia anywhere in any way. I doubt that a farmer can buy that very toxic gas in any quantity, much less be allowed to release it to the atmosphere. And if you spray crops with it, it just kills anything it touches before polluting the air.

Fun experiment: Try to order a cylinder of ammonia, and see how many minutes will go before your local anti-terrorist squad contacts you.

Or have you re-defined "anhydrous ammonia" to mean something else than what the rest of the world understands by that term?
9
Who said I don't believe in magic?  If you want to classify God creating the world out of nothing as "magic" then yes I do believe in magic.

 But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about poop as fertilizer. Anybody who thinks that is magic is an idiot.

 Nice try changing the subject, you dishonest scum bag.
But Dave, if the creation of the whole universe is magic, and if poop is part of the universe and wouldn't exist without magic, then it stands to reason that poop is magic too. :parrot:

Oh, it's not just magic.

From The Complete Works Of Chuang Tzu, Translated by Burton Watson
Section EIGHTEEN - PERFECT HAPPINESS

Master Tung-kuo asked Chuang Tzu, "This thing called the Way - where does it exist?"
Chuang Tzu said, "There's no place it doesn't exist."
"Come," said Master Tung-kuo, "you must be more specific!"
"It is in the ant."
"As low a thing as that?"
"It is in the panic grass."
"But that's lower still!"
"It is in the tiles and shards."
"How can it be so low?"
"It is in the piss and shit!"
10

But mine is LOW labor.

Yours is HIGH labor.

:wave:
Really? How many hours per day do you work, and how many hours do I work? Or do you have another measure for work intensity? Do you for example know how much work goes into growing Jerusalem artichokes?
Farms abandoned a century ago will still have completely untended healthy stands of Jerusalem artichokes, and they are imo a very tasty vegetable.
Labour certainly comes into it when cleaning them for cooking. 1) Select the largest/smoothest ones for growing on, 2) use among other implements a toothbrush for cleaning the multiple crevices, and/or 3) just slice them finely and fry them raw.

Mashed potatoes will for example be a totally new and rewarding dish if you add mashed J.a. (or ditto parsnips).
11

But mine is LOW labor.

Yours is HIGH labor.

:wave:
Really? How many hours per day do you work, and how many hours do I work? Or do you have another measure for work intensity? Do you for example know how much work goes into growing Jerusalem artichokes?
12
  And the system enhances ecosystems.  Yes, even yours, Lugubert.

Kind thought, Dave, but IMHO most of your ideas look like advocating monocultures, which we all think is bad. My ecosystem seems to get increasingly varied on my own ideas. I've listed more than 100 plants on my 900 sqm (deduct hose of 135 and a garage). Every year adds a few species, introduced by me or just appearing. Birds are fed in winter and I just added a nesting box in a tree. More visitors each year. I'm not so good with insects, but now and then I identify one that I haven't noticed earlier. They don't always cooperate when I want to take their photos, so identification is often fairly unsure. Plants behave better.

Anyway, I interpret increasing variety as an enhanced eco system.

Higher animals are easier to identify, even if they don't wait for the camera. I'm fairly shielded from preying deer; roses and bulbs etc. thrive, a hedgehog and hares show up at times. Less variety in birds than I would have wished, but at least so far approaching 10 species. When I lived just outside Gothenburg, really in a more urban setting than now, my bird list reached 20.

Recently, I've discovered and identified a moss, the name of which I had never seen before in Swedish. Lungmossa, Common liverwort to you. Made that day for me.

Not just collecting names  for fun.  A couple of plants of mine really should be (and are) where children and pets can't reach them. Poisonous stuff like for example Black nightshade, Bittersweet and Leopard's bane.
13

At one point in this series of threads, Dave was shown many examples of urban vegetable gardens, garden co-ops, etc. Pretty well every city has them, often in empty lots owned by the city and unused otherwise. England, of course, has its allotments. And there are farmers' markets everywhere.

Dave consistently claims that farm market produce is significantly more expensive than in the grocery store, which I suppose is possible in the US, given that country is known for having very cheap and plentiful food.

However, that isn't the case here, or in any Canadian farm market I've been in. Sure, you can buy gourmet sausages and high end home made cheeses, but meat and vegetables are definitely fresher and cheaper than in the grocery chain store.

Allotments are popular in Sweden as well. The oldest allotment still in existence was founded in 1895. But even earlier, an area with a similar concept was created in 1832 on the outskirts of Gothenburg, to make local factory workers stay in Sweden and not emigrate to America. This area is still called Amerika and has allotments.

I live in a town of some 30 000 inhabitants. Farmland all around, a few allotment areas. My garden, like many others, has sufficient space to cultivate a nice variety of vegetables and fruit. When that's not sufficient, there is a weekly market, where of course greens are cheaper and more fresh than in grocery stores. Contributing is a shop run by Muslims, appropriately enough next to the little mosque. Not only cheap veggies and e.g. large sacks of good quality, low price rice; they sell interesting produce from ME countries that you don't find in more European style shops.

In my previous home town Gothenburg, same same but of course more for half a million people. Long waiting lists for the several allotment areas, a couple of weekly markets. A ten minutes drive from where I lived got me to a vegetable and fruit store run by Muslims, cheap enough to compensate for the petrol used up if you bought, say, just four £'s worth.

Dave, all the world doesn't look like your backyard.
14
More Faux news:

Fox News continues to focus on the debate about how immigration is breaking Sweden. One guest last night, described as a "Swedish defence and national security advisor", spoke about the problems caused by criminality in Swedish cities and suburbs. But neither the Swedish Defence Ministry nor Foreign Office have heard of the expert. Nils Bildt, who called for an "open and honest" debate on crime, has previously been convicted of a violent offence in the United States.

A better known Bildt is the former Swedish PM, Carl, the one who Twittered on Trump's speech "What is he smoking?", is now addressing Trump again: "Skip a golf weekend and come here to have a look!"

Adding link
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fake-sweden-expert-on-fox-news-has-criminal-convictions-in-us-no-connection-to-swedish-security/
15
Hi Dave, here's one nugget for you:

Fox News interviewed "Swedish defense and security advisor Nils Bildt" who supports Trump's statements on crimes in Swedish metropolises and suburbs.

Only problem is that all Swedish Government departments, agencies etc. including the armed forces deny any knowledge of this ex-convict.

ETA: More than one morning paper has the story. Here's one in English: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fake-sweden-expert-on-fox-news-has-criminal-convictions-in-us-no-connection-to-swedish-security/
16
You know, North America had a huge problem with immigrants about 500 years ago, and it seems to be getting worse.

I was tempted to learn how to play bridge, but I gave it up. I would probably have yelled No Trump too much.

Added: Just found an analogy in a Danish paper: So riddled with errors and manipulations that it exceeds Trump on Twitter.
17
Allergic-to-fact-checking Dave didn't bother to for example Google the name Jimmie Åkesson.
Wikipedia has this on the party he heads:

Sweden Democrats or Swedish Democrats (Swedish: Sverigedemokraterna, SD) is a nationalist political party in Sweden that was founded in 1988. The party describes itself as social conservative with a nationalist foundation, though it has been characterized by some as far-right, right-wing populist, national-conservative, and anti-immigration. The party had its roots in Swedish fascism and was a part of the white supremacy movement; initially, it was characterized by right-wing extremism and activism. SD's logo from the 1990s until 2006 was a version of the torch used by the UK National Front.

According to Jimmie's article, the suicide bomber six years ago "tried to blow up hundreds of people". Maybe he wanted to, but thanks to his incompetence, he only managed to blow himself up.

"Schools have banned singing of Christian hymns, because they don't want to offend immigrants." Of course there is no such ban for that reason. Confessional elements (hymns, blessings, creeds) in teaching situations are not allowed for any religion. A few traditions are allowed, like a certain summer hymn on last day of school before summer, and lighting candles at advent.

"Sex crimes nearly doubled from 2014 to 2015." 2014: 1 % of the inhabitants, 2015: 1.7 %. Bad enough, but an increase in reporting should be factored in. Problem awareness, less stigma, more support to victims helps ease of reporting. I don't know for these years, but an increasing number of types of sexual harassment being classed as rape will of course also increase reported numbers.

No surprise that the Swedish Minister of Justice lashed out in unusually harsh words (dynga: 'dung') condemning Jimmie's distortions.
18
Politics and Current Events / Re: JCC bomb threats
This takes the pressure off of Sweden and all the violence sweeping across the cities there.
IDGI. Sarcasm or irony? Or are you referring to the one (1) recent incident in Stockholm when the police fired at attackers? Total number of casualties: 1 (a policeman's arm was hit by a stone).

For comparison of violence: the average murder rate of Sweden's three largest cities combined  (2 in 100 000 inhabitants/year) is 1/15 of Chicago's and 1/30 of the St. Louis rate.
19
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Correct.

For example, according to the persons who were interviewed by Horowitz, the conversation were edited in such a way that their answers appear to be responses to other questions than what they answered.

Trump said that Sweden accepted more than 160 000 asylum seekers in 2016. Correct number: just above 67 000.

For comparison of violence: Last year there were 50% more murders in Orlando/Orange, Florida, than in all of Sweden.
20
When interpreting Sweden's rape statistics, it's important to be aware that the definition of "rape" has been stepwise expanded.

On deadly violence, it should be noted that for Sweden, it's 1 per 1000 000 inhabitants. USA: 5... Etc.

Trump said that there are immigrant dense suburbs that the police won't enter. Truth is that the police has increased their presence in several areas.

Trump also claimed that Sweden had its first Islamic terror attack not long ago. Probably refers to the suicide bomber in Stockholm 6 (SIX) years ago. Nobody else was hurt.
21
It's interesting that, at the same time as Trump presents alternative facts about Sweden, Russian Internet trolls are active spreading lies about us. Maybe we on average are doing things right?
22
Neo Nazis did attack a refugee camp in Sweden.
Details please. Trump explicitly referred to last Friday. Not a word in my Saturday paper on anything spectacular. Swedish journalists seem to be generally left leaning, so you can be quite certain that attacks from the extreme right will be very well published and (of course) condemned.

There have been attacks on refugee camps. It isn't always clear if the perpetrators are neonazis or general hooligans. Either way, those incidents can't be compared to the atrocities Trump mentioned in the same breath. I don't think that any refugees in Sweden have been killed by attacks, for example. My understanding is that attacks are mainly by graffiti or in very isolated cases arson.
23
I don't think there was any confusion- He's just making shit up as usual.
The Trump comment on Sweden is confusing not only newspapers all over Scandinavia. This just in:

Sweden's embassy in Washington is asking the US Foreign Office what Trump meant.

Carl Bildt, former Swedish prime minister and former foreign minister, wonders on Twitter what Trump had been smoking.
24
Illiteracy or just plain stupidity?
Quote from: The Guardian
Donald Trump appeared to invent a terrorist attack in Sweden during a campaign-style rally in Florida on Saturday, inviting questions that he may have confused the Scandinavian country with a city in Pakistan.

With thousands of supporters gathered in an aircraft hangar in Melbourne, Florida, Trump used his speech to talk about migration in Europe and linked it to terror attacks in Brussels, Nice and Paris. He then added Sweden to the list, incorrectly stating that an attack had happened there on Friday.

Trump told supporters: "We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden."

"Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

There were questions about whether Trump had confused Sweden with Sehwan in Pakistan, where more than 85 people were killed in a suicide bombing at the Sufi shrine on Friday.
25
And of course, as we're on the cusp of an automation boom, there may be very little need for "farm people" in the future anyway.
I don't think I will ever automate my food production completely. The animals are too much fun. I like the interaction.
Let me guess. You find it reassuring to interact with beings on your own intellectual level.
You're insulting Dave's goats! They are intelligent.