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Messages - meepmeep

So, I happened to discover that this Peterson guy is an epistemological pragmatist. Albeit, with a weird version of pragmatism, I don't think I've really seen before. From what I can gather, he believes truth is contingent on a proposition's utility to the survival of either a particular organism, or maybe a species. As opposed to a more standard version of pragmatism, which I understand to take truth to be contingent to something like testability. So, yeah, that might help explain some of his weird positions.

That's quite the complicated way of saying "brain worms."
Anyway, it's a different topic, but it's also interesting to see the description of the hiring decision, which involved Schiff, an established faculty member, shouting over other people until he got what he wanted and then going out of his way to protect and nurture his "eccentric" protege. Imagine being one of the other people on the hiring committee and watching all this shit go down.

I think this is pretty common, at least in academic hiring situations - and has been forever. The art college I went to - in Nova Scotia nearly half a century ago - had the Fine Arts faculty absolutely stuffed with Kansas City college of art alumni and a bunch of New Yorkers, while the design dept. was almost entirely German or Americans from Parsons. This was down to perhaps three established and powerful faculty who had a 'vision' of what they wanted the institution to become and threw their weight into getting it done.

And I hear stories from my niece that suggest similar conditions exist everywhere.

Yeah, it does happen everywhere. When I was in grad school, my department was searching for a post doc, and we were asked to participate in the search by attending the candidates' talks, having lunch with them, and then having our grad rep share the collective group's opinions on all 3 people. We liked one person who was doing some really interesting, different things best of the 3, and she was our recommendation.

In the meeting, the chair clearly favored the post doc who did the shit he was doing - 19th century Russian lit/poetry, which everyone fucking does all the fucking time - and his justification for overruling everyone and not even considering our input was that the candidate we liked had a 13 year old son  so "that would be a problem."

Totally fucking illegal. But he got what he wanted.   :clap:
Anyway, it's a different topic, but it's also interesting to see the description of the hiring decision, which involved Schiff, an established faculty member, shouting over other people until he got what he wanted and then going out of his way to protect and nurture his "eccentric" protege. Imagine being one of the other people on the hiring committee and watching all this shit go down.
He's definitely up to his eyeballs is mysticism, though.

Which is why it's, um... funny? to see the overlap with Sam Harris fans.
The reason Donald Trump Jr. is wealthy and I'm not is that my individual character is not adequately developed.
lol what a crank

Does this mean if I take LSD before an exam that the details of bovine respiratory disease will magically come to my brain through the ether?

This "the ancients had it all figured out because all knowledge comes from a mystical cosmic source" shit is toxic, no matter what subject it infects. This is no different from the dumbass hippies who think tea tree oil can cure cancer because some ancient tribe derived it from the spirits and held this secret, powerful knowledge for centuries.

Fuck off over there with that shit and then when you get there, kindly fuck off some more.
You're welcome!

I'm sure there are a bunch of good books out there, but I can't remember any others off the top of my head. That book was our basic text for my Soviet history class, and the rest of the readings were a mix of articles, literature, primary documents, etc. We didn't actually spend a whole lot of time on the period leading up the revolution or the revolution itself.
The only thing I'm struggling to figure out is the % of his bullshit that's him being dumb vs pure bad faith/evangelizing.
Schiff has known him for decades. Istm to be a pretty decent observation of Peterson's personality and his hardening rw views.

Also Peterson is a jackass.

I also have to wonder what minor things Schiff might not have noticed or might have overlooked without realizing it, based on that one anecdote about Peterson referring to his kids as monkeys needing to be kept in place in the hierarchy. I've seen so many examples of men missing shit that is plainly in front of their face because it doesn't register that I wonder what other weird things fell through the cracks.

No, seriously, I'm p sure this guy is mentally ill. The Soviet art thing is inexplicable otherwise.
Go to the library and read the first part of Geoffrey Hosking's The First Socialist Society. That's a good start for the basics. Read the rest of it while you're at it.
He was, however, more eccentric than I had expected. He was a maverick. Even though there was nothing contentious about his research, he objected in principle to having it reviewed by the university research ethics committee, whose purpose is to protect the safety and well-being of experiment subjects.

He requested a meeting with the committee. I was not present but was told that he had questioned the authority and expertise of the committee members, had insisted that he alone was in a position to judge whether his research was ethical and that, in any case, he was fully capable of making such decisions himself. He was impervious to the fact that subjects in psychological research had been, on occasion, subjected to bad experiences, and also to the fact that both the Canadian and United States governments had made these reviews mandatory. What was he doing! I managed to make light of this to myself by attributing it to his unbridled energy and fierce independence, which were, in many other ways, virtues. That was a mistake.

What a pompous self-obsessed cockbag. If anyone at my school tried to do this with any animal experiments, they'd be laughed out of the profession.

He was preoccupied with alternative health treatments including fighting off the signs of aging as they appear on the skin, and, one time, even shamanic healing practices, where, to my great surprise and distress, he chose to be the shaman himself.

lol of course

If Jordan is not a true free speech warrior, then what is he? The email sent through his wife's account described Bill 28, the parenting bill, as part of the "transgender agenda" and claimed it was "misleadingly" called "All Families are Equal." Misleading? What same-sex families and transgender people have in common is their upset of the social order. In Maps of Meaning, Jordan's first book, he is exercised by the breakdown of the social order and the chaos that he believes would result. Jordan is fighting to maintain the status quo to keep chaos at bay, or so he believes. He is not a free speech warrior. He is a social order warrior.

That this isn't obvious to some people baffles me.

Jordan exhibits a great range of emotional states, from anger and abusive speech to evangelical fierceness, ministerial solemnity and avuncular charm. It is misleading to come to quick conclusions about who he is, and potentially dangerous if you have seen only the good and thoughtful Jordan, and not seen the bad.

Shortly after Jordan's rise to notoriety back in 2016, I emailed him to express my upset with his dishonesty and lack of intellectual and social integrity. He called in a conciliatory voice the next morning. I was reiterating my disappointment and upset when he interrupted me, saying more or less the following:

"You don't understand. I am willing to lose everything, my home, my job etc., because I believe in this." And then he said, with the intensity he is now famous for, "Bernie. Tammy had a dream, and sometimes her dreams are prophetic. She dreamed that it was five minutes to midnight."

That was our last conversation. He was playing out the ideas that appeared in his first book. The social order is coming apart. We are on the edge of chaos. He is the prophet, and he would be the martyr. Jordan would be our saviour. I think he believes that.

He may be driven by a great and genuine fear of our impending doom, and a passionate conviction that he can save us from it. He may believe that his ends justify his questionable means, and he may not be aware that he mimics those figures from whom he wants to protect us. But his conviction makes him no less problematic. On the contrary.

tbh he sounds mentally ill.

He is a biological and Darwinian determinist. Gender, gender roles, dominance hierarchies, parenthood, all firmly entrenched in our biological heritage and not to be toyed with. Years ago when he was living in my house, he said children are little monkeys trying to clamber up the dominance hierarchy and need to be kept in their place. I thought he was being ironic. Apparently, not.


What I am seeing now is a darker, angrier Jordan than the man I knew. In Karen Heller's recent profile in the Washington Post he is candid about his long history of depression. Depression is an awful illness. It is a cognitive disorder that casts a dark shadow over everything. His view of life, as nasty and brutish, may very well not be an idea, but a description of his experience, which became for him the truth. But this next statement, from Heller's article, is heartbreaking: "You have an evil heart -- like the person next to you," she quotes him as telling a sold-out crowd. "Kids are not innately good -- and neither are you." This from the loving and attentive father I knew? That makes no sense at all.

It's important to be centrist and reasonable and willing to compromise with those on the right who would simply liquidate all of the children instead of liquidating some, abusing some, and losing track of the others. That's what bipartisanship is all about.
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
Long Island and Staten Island are the absolute worst places. I also hope everyone is happy with themselves with President Goodbrains saying American citizens should be deported to some place or another for kneeling. The sad thing is that the MAGA chodes will love it, truly and honestly.

Lol nothing matters
No, I pronounce it as 2 syllables.

Also back on topic a bit, it seems that men continue to be the problem here:
brug I used to say oregano like Marge for fun but it's gotten to the point that this is how I usually say it now for real, +/- "what the hell?" about 1/3 of the time. And I can't see a gym without calling it a gyme.

Unfortunately I'm surrounded by young people who have only seen like 2 Simpsons episodes and don't understand anything I say. :sadcheer:

my wife shows her students (7th grade) The Raven from The Simpsons every year and I'm pretty sure she's the only one who enjoys it, the kids are only vaguely aware of the simpsons existing

Your wife is doing the Lord's work. :mason:

That's probably my favorite Treehouse of Horror bit, in part because Poe is one of my favorite poets and I also can't see his name without hearing Dr. Nick in my head:

Ty was saying that the video game people are dealing with the "omg video games make kids shoot up schools!" shit yet again, and like I said to him, the more obvious it becomes that guns are the problem and the more unavoidable that very obvious conclusion is, the more these disingenuous shitheels will try to cling to any other possible explanation, no matter how thoroughly it's been debunked.

Video games, bullying, girls being mean and not just saying yes to appease boys, movies, parenting, Common Core math, doors, backpacks, Snapchat, anything. Just not my precious, precious guns.

Anyway, it's cool that Trayvon Martin was a thug who got what was coming to him and deserved to die, but another teen who walks around his school shooting people while laughing about it and who yells, "Surprise!" as he's pulling the trigger --- let's slow down and understand where this poor victimized child is coming from!!!!!!!!!!!1
brug I used to say oregano like Marge for fun but it's gotten to the point that this is how I usually say it now for real, +/- "what the hell?" about 1/3 of the time. And I can't see a gym without calling it a gyme.

Unfortunately I'm surrounded by young people who have only seen like 2 Simpsons episodes and don't understand anything I say. :sadcheer:
Shocked to learn the father is an asshole:'s-father-thinks-he-was-bullied

"My son, to me, is not a criminal, he's a victim," he said. "The kid didn't own guns. I owned guns."


"He pulled the trigger but he is not this person," he said. "It is like we see in the movies when someone gets into his body and does things that are not done. It's not possible in one day for the child to have changed so much."

He said that after the teen had been taken into custody, he and his wife were allowed to visit him for 15 to 20 minutes.

"I saw the child. I didn't see a child who is a murderer. A pure child, a child who was ashamed to look me in the face," his father said. "He was thinking of his sisters, how his sisters will be able to get about. He said he loves me. He told his mother he loves her, and he will try to be strong to help us cope."

He said his son told him he had acted on his own and had spared "the kids who were the good kids so they can tell his story."

I mean, he murdered a bunch of people, but he spared the good kids so they could tell his story. What more do you want, people?!
Yes, but also you are wrong.

Also I say basil like Basil Fawlty and not like bay-sil, and it is an argument with Ty that I will take to the grave. After I kill him for trying to correct me on it so many times when he's the one who's wrong.
Fuck these horrible poor excuses for human beings.

This is how its pronounced in the UK.

The way I say it or the way these weirdos say it?
Does anyone even pronounce that word with a long "i"?

I've never heard anyone pronounce it without a long i.
Rhymes with "despite"?
I've never heard that.


I could swear I've never heard it pronounced the way you guys are saying you say it. Weird.