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Messages - meepmeep

2151
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
there is something weirdly refreshing about how overwhelmingly and comically evil and incompetent this all is.
it's validating to see that the trump administration is shaping up to be the dumpster fire we imagined during the campaign.

also maybe a faint, tentative hope that few people will be able to stay in denial about how terrible he is, and the problem will politically self-correct.
Pinochet politically self-corrected. Eventually. :popcorn:
pinochet came to power in an actual military coup.

Supported by the hypocritical yanquis who foam at the mouth over Castro.
2152
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/29/503755613/trumps-potential-treasury-secretary-headed-a-foreclosure-machine

Quote
Facing threats that their home would be auctioned off, the Schaffers finally got through to a OneWest vice president. According to Rex Shaffer, the VP said, "I'm going to get you a 60-day extension on the sale date, so we can work this thing out." That was on Feb. 17, 2011. But the next day, the Schaffers' house was sold without their knowledge. "We didn't even know it -- didn't have the faintest idea," Rex Shaffer says.

They voted for Donald Trump, but Rose Schaffer says they're praying he doesn't choose Mnuchin as his Treasury secretary. "If he can't run his own little bank," she asks, "how can he handle a large thing for the United States?"

:icare:
2153
Yeah, the ladies I worked with in VA who were from further out west, like Fauquier County, loved big box stores. I know a lot of small town people really hate Walmart and lament the decline of mom and pop local stores, but there's a good chunk of people who live in these kinds of places who want Walmart there, and it's not matter of "that's the only thing I can afford in this shitty economy." I'm sure that plays a role for some people - they literally can't fucking afford anything else - but there's a contingent that isn't stuck with Walmart but actively wants it. I don't think they're necessarily ignorant about what that shit can do to a local economy. I think they just prefer the convenience and low prices and accept the trade offs because they happen to not be close to the small mom and pop store owners who are hurt by it.
2154
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
The AMA put out a statement saying they strongly support appointing Tom Price to HHS.

lololololololol

In case anyone needed a reminder of the kind of shitbag lobby the AMA is.
2156
with a win of 6 or 7 points, most of what you're saying still applies.  how does a walking dumpster fire like trump not lose by 50??  still, for an American election, with our strongly brand-loyal voters, 6 or 7 is relatively large.

Yeah, brand loyalty is why Trump would've never lost with a massive margin. You could literally put an admitted child rapist up as the nominee, and they'd still get millions of votes because "what about the Supreme Court?!" and all the like. In a system like ours, the parties are supposed to be the gatekeepers, which is part of why I found it funny that people complaining about the DNC being mean to Bernie were hoping that the GOP would prevent Trump from winning the nomination.
2158
This is what happens when you read a teeth post too closely or seriously, guys.  :hug:
2159
I wonder how much of that is an East Coast thing.

Could be.

I don't mean to simplify things, either. It's not as straightforward as hey, guys, bootstraps!. Some people don't have fucking boots to begin with and they would work plenty hard if there was work to be had. Some people are stuck geographically and really have no way of getting out. But I have come across some people who are plain unrealistic or unwilling to do the things they need to do, and it drives me fucking crazy when they complain about it.

My Trump supporter SIL who unfriended me from Facebook for not liking Trump and who thought her children were in danger because I didn't defend her when Matty said some dumb shit about Trump supporters loving the KKK that I didn't even get to see before it was deleted... she has hardly ever worked in her adult life, living off her parents and her husband. Now that her kids are old enough that they're all in school all day, she still wants to stay at home. Which is all fine and great and good, but don't you fucking act like you're being kept down and are economically disadvantaged because of the Democrats and globalization when you refuse to even look for a job because you'd prefer to stay at home. And don't complain about it to someone who cleaned up dog shit and cat vomit and got bitten and scratched for minimum wage because it was what was necessary to get moving. Sure, I could easily be resentful about the fact that I can't choose to work just 20 hours a week and still own a house and land and have pets and children and crafts and hobbies and a garden and I could work myself up to be really angry about it and think it's the fault of China and Syrian refugees, but jesus christ almighty.
2160
and my dad went from being an engineer to driving a bread delivery truck every morning,
Can you explain the circumstances where that career change (with associated move to foreign country) makes sense?

Sure.

#1 - Why leave Argentina?

Argentina was and continues to be a shithole. My parents lived through tumultuous changes in government, including a fascist military junta that tortured and disappeared dissidents. When that fell apart, the "democracy" that followed was a fucking joke and a disaster. Unstable currency and hyperinflation made it impossible to do much. My parents did well enough in that they were able to buy a house in a nicer, suburb-y part of the city and as my mother never let me forget, "we had a cleaning lady (AND NOW I HAVE TO CLEAN THE WHOLE HOUSE MYSELF! :whyyou: )". But the instability made life very stressful, and it was harder and harder for people to get by. My dad didn't see a future for any of us in that.

Crime kept creeping up in the 80s. Everyone in the neighborhood used to circle the block when they got home to make sure no one was following them. Even then, our family friend stepped out of her car in her garage to find that someone had crept in and was pointing a gun at her head. One time, my mom's friend was home alone while her son and my brother were at a birthday party. Someone rang the doorbell, and she ignored it, but they broke into the house. When they found her, they grabbed her, restrained her, and forced her into a car. They got on the on ramp to take the highway that led out of the city, so she opened the car door, jumped out, and ran to the closest house she could find and called my mom for help.

Lovely place. Hasn't gotten much better since. My cousin, who married a wealthy man, lives in a gated community that has its own supermarket, school, and health clinic. They've been robbed at gunpoint going back into the community. And my uncle told us that there was a scam involving the private security companies that guard these types of communities wherein they'd arrange for one company to break into the neighborhood protected by another company so they could justify increasing security and costs. And that's how the people who are well off live.

Anyway, in the 90s, my uncle had already jumped ship a couple of years prior and was living with my grandparents in NJ. My dad's cousins were out in California. So he had to pick where to go and he fucking picked New Jersey.

:dinorage:

#2 - Why not be an engineer?

Imagine you're a hiring manager at an engineering firm in New Jersey in the 90s. You get an application from an almost 50 year old who just came to this country and hardly speaks any English. Are you going to hire him or the fresh 21 year old Rutgers grad?

It didn't help that when my dad first came here, he was undocumented. They had given up on the visas coming through after having waited 10 years, and my dad was already here as an overstay when they were approved. Even with papers, there was no way he was ever going to find a decent job so he used what he had and bought into a bread company as a "distributor," which at the beginning meant he was driving a truck and doing all the deliveries himself at the ass crack of dawn. It was years before he managed to expand it to 2 and then 3 routes and hire a few guys to do the bulk of the driving.
2161
teeth gotta teeth no matter what.

To be fair, though, I sometimes look back at what my parents and grandparents had to fucking go through and all that they did and sacrificed, and it's, um, interesting to compare it to some people I've come across throughout the years who refuse to ever leave their town or, uh, learn how to drive. Like, moving to another state for a job is way too much to ask of someone, but my parents were able to leave their country in their 40s, leaving behind their family and friends, to move to a place where they barely spoke the language, and my dad went from being an engineer to driving a bread delivery truck every morning, but, hey, it's hard to move 100 miles, so I get it. :unsmith:
2162
metastasizing anti-intellectualism

This is a real problem, but people are reluctant to address it because no one wants to sound like a snob. Instead, we keep voting for people who continue to attack the public education system on all levels, all while sharing dumbass fucking memes about "Common Core" with zero understanding of what it is. Among parts of the population, there's hardly any trust in expertise or evidence. Even if there are some reasons to be skeptical of experts in some subjects, like medicine, people are embracing anti-intellectualism and running with it, rejecting absolutely everything, much like your typical hippie idiot who believes everything David Avocado Wolfe (lol, seriously) posts because obviously Big Pharma!!!! is out to poison everyone on purpose. Those who lack the background knowledge and critical thinking skills to parse the endless supply of information that is the internet can very happily throw the baby out with the bathwater and feel proud about it.

I've had lots of vet assistant coworkers over the years go on about how useless college is and that's why they never did it and who needs college anyway. My favorite was, "People tell me I should be a vet, but I'm too lazy to do it and I know enough already so why should I bother going to college?", from someone who once contradicted a doctor's advice because her friend was the client and obviously this assistant knows more about managing feline heart disease than someone who was dumb enough to go to college and so fucking stupid to go to vet school (lol dummy). My in laws have also talked about how dumb college is, too, and how it's a waste of time. It doesn't mean anything that you went to college. Any idiot can do it. And anyone can do fine without a college degree.

The best part is when these "college is useless" people share all of their wonderful opinions about what's going on at colleges across the country and what's happening in classrooms and how and what students are learning at college and how they know exactly what needs to change and what needs to be done. But I'm an elitist if I point out there's more to college than multiple choice tests in LOL GENDER STUDIES and CULTURAL STUDIES and writing middle school level book reports and that their impressions of how it all works are based on garbage and propaganda. What would I know, though? I've only been in academia in one way or another for the past 12 years.

Anyway, to state the obvious, there need to be viable options and jobs that pay living wages, at a minimum, for people who don't go to college. Not everyone wants to or can or should go to college. Not every profession requires it, and professions that don't require it aren't any less important than those that do. But just about every profession requires a solid education that is supposed to fucking be provided by our K-12 system, but our current infatuation with being ignorant and choosing your own personalized reality and loving it is depriving lots of people of that, too, and that's a goddamn travesty.

tl;dr 'you're an idiot if you go to college because it's worthless' is corrosive much like 'you're an idiot if you don't go to college' is, and I wouldn't be surprised if it helps people feel better about devaluing all education, not just higher ed.
2163
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
I agree that burning a flag should carry more jail time than most instances of rape. God bless America.
2164
Ah. If you can't read the graph, that makes sense. I think you can click on it and get a bigger version. Not knowing what it says makes my posts nonsensical. What it says is that those jobs are actually gone, not just that they are in service sector now.

This still has pretty much nothing to do with the two articles I posted.

Again, they're seeing the same education gap trend in counties that are wealthy and not majority white. I can tell you for a fucking fact that Warren, NJ, where my uncle lives, is not reeling from fucking manufacturing job losses and free trade and all the other shit everyone's talking about. I know it's hard to let go of the story that makes sense to you emotionally, and I'm not even arguing that the education angle is the whole story, but it's a pretty stark, clear fucking trend, and that's worth talking about without falling back on the fucking eternal "what about rural white people" shit everyone's so comfortable assuming is always the only issue.
2165
This is missing the point pretty drastically. Bernie was the candidate that Trump voters wanted if they were informed about politics.

:unsure:

But, given the choices we had, Trump was their only option and he turns out to be more whacked than anyone could have guessed (which is saying a lot).

Uh, there was hardly any guessing to do unless you weren't paying attention. Which a lot of people weren't.

Think about it this way. If Hillary would have won a super close race, would you have chalked up the voted that weren't for her to ignorant voters?

Many of them, yes. And there are many ignorant Hillary voters.

It's a pretty straightforward analysis to say that some of Trump's voters have elected a man whose policies will directly do them harm. It's also evident that a lot of voters in any election have no idea what the fuck they're doing and vote on emotion alone.

To me it's not a question of the "right" or "wrong" choice. Nothing's ever so simple. I'm not arguing that Trump voters made the "wrong" choice but the consequences of the choice they made will result in more harm for them than other choices likely would have. If the satisfaction they get out of giving "the elites" a giant middle finger and feeling like they voted for change is worth it, then fine, but from a pragmatic point of view, it's basically cutting off your nose to spite your face. A Trump administration will benefit those dreaded, evil elites and fuck everyone else, so mission accomplished, you're doing a heck of a job, Brownie.

Some disparaging word or another for dumb poor whites? Their anger is pretty obvious when you look at that graph. They just happened to finally be motivated enough to vote.

Your graph is illegible because the image is too small.

And it's not "dumb poor whites." Read the fucking 538 article, Testy. This education gap is still there when you control for income and diversity, and the counties they looked at are a mix, not just rural areas in Rust Belt states. Among the counties with lower education rates that shifted Trump are the wealthy counties of Sussex and Warren in NJ, and Suffolk County, NY which is in Long Island. And counties where the population is not majority white but which had lower education rates also had Trump doing better and Clinton doing worse.

Quote
And this is also a reasonably diverse list of counties. While some of them are poor, a few others -- such as Bullitt County, Kentucky, and Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana -- have average incomes. There's also some racial diversity on the list: Starr County, Texas, is 96 percent Hispanic, for example, and Clinton underperformed Obama there (although she still won it by a large margin). Edgecombe County, North Carolina, is 57 percent black and saw a shift toward Trump.

As for the actual "poor dumb whites," yes, many of them are angry, but voting your anger is not rational or logical. It's understandable, but it's also how you end up shooting yourself in the fucking foot.

Here's a beautiful example: https://www.statnews.com/2016/11/28/trump-black-lung/
2166
...how is providing tax cuts to corporations and the top tax brackets, privatizing public school systems, increasing defense spending, gutting environmental regulations, and destroying what's left of the social safety net going to benefit those without college degrees? Hey, we may get lucky with Trump's cronies getting us into another war where we can continue to ship off people who can't access college so they can serve as bullet sponges and if they come back, they can just rot on the streets or use their VA stipend to go to the "private doctor of their choice."

Yes, the choice to vote for Trump is perfectly logical if you listen to the emotion and marketing of his campaign and not the actual policies or garbage that is coming out of the people who will actually be deciding things in his administration. But delusion never helped anyone.

People talk about the coastal city elite bubble, but some of these small town folks are in a fucking bubble of their own, and it's not elitist to point it out.
2168


Quote
Only 65 pre-election stories for Trump and "Conflict of Interest" from WaPo, NYT & Politico. (Some are debate transcripts or about Clinton).

Same time period (July 1st to November 8th), 369 stories on Clinton's email server on WaPo, NYT & Politico. (Plus 591 blog entries).
2169
There's something particularly gruesome about people who love Henry Kissinger, who support the President Elect who has openly called for more torture, and who are in favor of using a facility in goddamn Cuba to torture people go off ranting about Castro's treatment of Cuban dissidents.

Welp, it's a good thing irony died this year. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2170
Drive a car like a real American.
2171
Hey, man, it's my First Amendment right to argue with the professor and monopolize class time with my idiotic bullshit, and if the professor tells me I'm wrong, it's discrimination and censorship. What kind of customer service is that?
2172
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/education-put-donald-trump-in-the-white-house/508703/

Obviously, it's because of all those nutty lib professors. I don't go a day without someone in a classroom yelling at me about Marx. Sad!
2173
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
Seeing the Christmas gift exchange pyramid scheme on Facebook already, and it strikes me as the perfect scam to represent the garbage that is 2016 - people falling for the mathematically impossible and being cheerful about it and reassuring all of their skeptical friends and family that it's totally not a scam because I'm doing it.
2174
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
Which is actually a pretty good trait for engineers to have if you think about it. Just tell me what works. I am not inventing new physics for a skyscraper or bridge.

:unsure:

It's pretty important to understand why it works in the first place and how people came to figure it out so you have the background knowledge to adjust things as needed and maybe come up with novel uses for things that already exist. And so you can understand what the weaknesses and failings of any given solution are and why they're there and what you can realistically do about them.

"Just tell me what I need to know" is basically the same shit as saying that reading webMD is enough to make you a doctor. Doing cookbook work by algorithm might work a lot of the time, but it will fail horribly sooner or later.
2175
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1958082-revelan-que-trump-le-pidio-permiso-a-macri-para-hacer-una-torre/amp/1958082

When Argentina's President Macri called to congratulate Trump, Trump asked him to renew the building permits for his fucking proposed tower in BA.

He's not even in office yet and he's already abusing his position. Fuck this stupid planet.
FWIW, both Trump and Macri deny this.
IMO, of course, Trump's word is worth less than nothing.  But I don't know if there's any way the La Nacion journalist can substantiate his account.

I have zero faith in an Argentinian politician telling the truth. Especially when corruption is involved. Macri is close to the city official responsible for the permits, and after months and months of blocking it, they suddenly approve everything a day or two after the phone call.  One of the two investors admitted to serving as a mediator between Eric Trump and Macri's team. If I had to bet I would say it's probably true. Even if it's not, Macri did let slip that he talked to Ivanka on the phone.