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TR Memescape

  • I think the biggest problem with TR is that a lot of you dont know how to surrender graciously when youre beat.

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11
remember when college kids with a stockpile of firearms and ammo took over federal land for days because they were upset?

also i don't want this good post to be overlooked and the thing it's about to be forgotten.

this actually happened! angry white small government zealots staged an armed takeover of a federal building because they wanted to like illegally graze their cattle or some shit. and they got acquitted lol.
12
This whole thread, man...











jesus fucking christ, just get it over with and have the kids move into actual literal goddamn prisons but OH WAIT prison guards don't fucking carry guns
14
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

Yeah. I just find some parts of Dave's stupidity...easy to translate. His choice to use island rather than jail was because the standard fantasy of forced isolation is an island; he didn't think it through the details. As such, I personally don't find rehashing his inability to put together a cohesive world from extremely common tropes that interesting. More interesting to me is understanding why - even in a case as close to matching what he actually wants - he thinks this thought experiment will prove anything.
I think it will demonstrate the superiority of an animal foods based system. But if I'm wrong ... Ok. I'm wrong several times a day. It's part of science.

You would do THAT by running an ACTUAL experiment and recording DATA.
Of course. And I have already done that with dairy goats. And Walter Haguen has already done it for his style of vegetable gardening.

You aren't concentrating, Dave.

We WERE talking about what your "thought experiment" would achieve, remember?
I don't need to concentrate. This is so easy I can do this with half my brain tied behind my back as Rush Limbaugh likes to say.

You couldn't even concentrate hard enough to remember the question ffs.

We simply have to agree on certain parameters for example how many man hours it takes to grow a certain size potato crop and how many food calories of output you get. And how many man hours it takes to raise meat animals and dairy animals versus how many food calories are output and so on.

Well, I reject your premise.

You are, as I said, failing to understand the difference between model and data.

Sure you can calculate those things given some a priori parameters.  That is your MODEL.  You can then TEST that model against DATA.

The data may show that your model was really good.  They may also show that your parameters were wildly off.
You are such a master at dispensing squid ink.

Look I know that you cannot have real data in a thought experiment. Do you think I was born yesterday?

All I want you to do is agree with me on certain model parameters with respect to various types of food production, both plant foods and animal Foods. In other words I want you to pick 3 or 5 or 10 types of foods that you want to produce on your Island in  thought experiment. I will also pick 3 or 5 or 10 types of foods and we will agree on the parameters for All Foods produced. Then we will run some numbers based on these model parameters and see what comes out.

Agreed?
I agree all your food will rot instantly. You lose.
15
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

Yeah. I just find some parts of Dave's stupidity...easy to translate. His choice to use island rather than jail was because the standard fantasy of forced isolation is an island; he didn't think it through the details. As such, I personally don't find rehashing his inability to put together a cohesive world from extremely common tropes that interesting. More interesting to me is understanding why - even in a case as close to matching what he actually wants - he thinks this thought experiment will prove anything.
I think it will demonstrate the superiority of an animal foods based system. But if I'm wrong ... Ok. I'm wrong several times a day. It's part of science.

You would do THAT by running an ACTUAL experiment and recording DATA.
Of course. And I have already done that with dairy goats. And Walter Haguen has already done it for his style of vegetable gardening.

You aren't concentrating, Dave.

We WERE talking about what your "thought experiment" would achieve, remember?
I don't need to concentrate. This is so easy I can do this with half my brain tied behind my back as Rush Limbaugh likes to say.

We simply have to agree on certain parameters for example how many man hours it takes to grow a certain size potato crop and how many food calories of output you get. And how many man hours it takes to raise meat animals and dairy animals versus how many food calories are output and so on.
You don't have half a brain.
16
Dave, are you still going on about your island experiment? Out of curiosity, could you even find water if dropped off in a random landscape?
Yes of course and I'm not just talking about any random landscape. I would propose a landscape like my location in Missouri because it's very easy to work with.

One with a town nearby?
Nope.  You get one shot at loading up with whatever supplies you want - garden seeds, livestock, tools, etc.

Ok. I'll take a nice house, 5 years of supplies, a decent computer and internet.
17
No uncool... the assumptions have to be grounded in reality.

Can't invoke magic.

Why on earth not?  You do.
Not in the area of food production I don't.

Why the exception?
There has never been an exception to the rule that Dave Hawkins cannot invoke Magic. I'm not like Benny Hinn.
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

Yeah. I just find some parts of Dave's stupidity...easy to translate. His choice to use island rather than jail was because the standard fantasy of forced isolation is an island; he didn't think it through the details. As such, I personally don't find rehashing his inability to put together a cohesive world from extremely common tropes that interesting. More interesting to me is understanding why - even in a case as close to matching what he actually wants - he thinks this thought experiment will prove anything.
I think it will demonstrate the superiority of an animal foods based system. But if I'm wrong ... Ok. I'm wrong several times a day. It's part of science.

You would do THAT by running an ACTUAL experiment and recording DATA.
Of course. And I have already done that with dairy goats. And Walter Haguen has already done it for his style of vegetable gardening.
But you don't have any actual DATA recorded.
18
I imagine that I've smuggled in hundreds of millions of dollars, hidden it in a safe and secret location, and am using it to bribe the guards to bring in all the food I want.

Result: More calories than I could possibly need produced with zero man hours of labor. My imagination wins!
Not to mention the money you'll be making on the inevitable black market.
19
No uncool... the assumptions have to be grounded in reality.

Can't invoke magic.

Why on earth not?  You do.
Not in the area of food production I don't.
No unexpected plagues. That's magic. Never a difficult pregnancy or labor. That's magic.
No severe storms, that's magic too.
20
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

My island includes a volcano.