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  • linus
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North Korea
* NK barred all Malaysians from leaving the country
* NK fired four missiles, claimed to be practice for hitting US bases in Japan
* US deploys anti-missile system (maybe planned since before)
* Russia and China objects to anti-missile system
* China National People's Congress happens now

Can't tell how much of this is the usual North Korean testing of US/Chinese/South Korean leaders and how much is a new kind of mess.

  • el jefe
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Re: North Korea
Reply #1
don't know, but here's a fun piece of context.  the Japanese continually talk about developing their own nukes as a deterrent to NK.

and Japan is one of a handful of countries that is considered a de facto breakout nuclear power.  i.e., if they decided to develop nukes, they could do so in a relatively short period of time.  they've got money, know-how, and a lot of relevant resources and infrastructure owing to their civilian nuclear program. 

other examples are canada, germany, italy, and australia.  I suppose south Africa could probably them get back if they wanted to.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #2
remember here that Bannon and Trump want a war with China eventually. That's their stated goal. This is all set-up for that.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #3

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Re: North Korea
Reply #4
can;t invesrigate Trump when there's a world war on our hands.

And hey, if he has to round up people of various ethnicities and ship em to camps just to be sure, I'm sure his supporters won't question it.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #5
jesus whaa?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Bilirubin
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Re: North Korea
Reply #6
So far China has stopped its citizens from traveling to South Korea, has closed a few department stores, and cancelled a K-pop tour. Its a regular WWIII let me tell you.

  • el jefe
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Re: North Korea
Reply #7
this is how it starts!

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Re: North Korea
Reply #8
china cancelled kpop. sad!
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • linus
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Re: North Korea
Reply #9
remember here that Bannon and Trump want a war with China eventually. That's their stated goal. This is all set-up for that.
Bannon's statement to that effect shouldn't be ignored, but it takes much more balls (and insanity) to go through with it than to say it in an interview. The Trump admin backed off their challenge to the One China policy. I'm more worried that a confrontation starts through wrecklessness/narcissistic inability to back off than as part of a longterm plan.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #10
China seems to be run by people who are much less stupid than a man who thinks he's some sort of evil genius because he read Art of War

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Re: North Korea
Reply #11
So far China has stopped its citizens from traveling to South Korea, has closed a few department stores, and cancelled a K-pop tour. Its a regular WWIII let me tell you.

The US has deployed a state of the art missile defense system on China's front doorstep in violation of numerous treaties.

No one's calling China the aggressor here.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #12
So far China has stopped its citizens from traveling to South Korea, has closed a few department stores, and cancelled a K-pop tour. Its a regular WWIII let me tell you.

The US has deployed a state of the art missile defense system on China's front doorstep in violation of numerous treaties.

No one's calling China the aggressor here.
that seems like an obama thing. when did we do that?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • linus
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Re: North Korea
Reply #13
that seems like an obama thing. when did we do that?
Planned since June, though decision to start deploying the system right now is a reaction to the missile launch, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_High_Altitude_Area_Defense#North_Korea_threat

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Re: North Korea
Reply #14
I wonder why we didn't just let the chinese keep an inspector there. Are they still upset over the korean war?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
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Re: North Korea
Reply #15
that seems like an obama thing. when did we do that?
Planned since June, though decision to start deploying the system right now is a reaction to the missile launch, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_High_Altitude_Area_Defense#North_Korea_threat
I think our general plan with missile defense is to deploy it around "rogue states", but position ourselves so that, as it is upgraded, it starts to give us a credible ability to shoot down a large Russian or Chinese attack.

right now, our systems are not reliable, and might, at best, stop a handful of missiles.  no way they could stop a large first strike from Russia or china.  the technology just isn't good enough yet.  too easy to foil with sheer numbers and countermeasures.  but over time, it might get good enough that we could stop or at least limit the damage from a large first strike.  coupled with our robust "last strike" capability, and the common understanding that we will use it if attacked first, this changes the strategic calculus for russia and china, regarding not just whether to ever consider such an attack, but whether to bother maintaining large missile forces deployed against us in the first place.

anyway, our military planners seem to want us in a position where we could exploit dual use of "rogue state" missile defenses and through justifiable "upgrades" start to neutralize the threat from russian and Chinese nukes as well.  the russians and Chinese of course see what we're doing, and therefore raise hell any time we set up defenses near them.  the russians were especially upset about our plans to set up a missile defense site in Poland, which we said was to protect europe from attacks by rogue states in the middle east (lol).

for this reason, I have to think NK is considered a real headache by the chinese.  NK gives us a valid excuse to set up missile defenses on china's doorstep.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #16
Quote
Mr. Trump emphasized that the United States was taking steps to "enhance our ability to deter and defend against North Korea's ballistic missiles using the full range of United States military capabilities," the White House said in a statement.
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China has been incensed over the deployment of the system, fearing it could give the United States military the ability to quickly detect and track missiles launched in China, according to analysts. A spokesman for China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Geng Shuang, said Tuesday that China would "take the necessary steps to safeguard our own security interests, and the consequences will be shouldered by the United States and South Korea."
Mr. Geng warned the two countries not to "go further and further down the wrong road."
"Attempt no landings there." :ohdear:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/world/asia/north-korea-thaad-missile-defense-us-china.html?_r=0

  • MikeS
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Re: North Korea
Reply #17
Although hazardous, this might be the "best" thing out of the Trump presidency.  Just deploy the THAAD system that we've talked about deploying for the past 8-10 months.  Without announcing it or negotiating it.

North Korea launches ballistic missile tests?  Deploy THAAD.
North Korea launches more tests?  Use THAAD when the ballistic missile reaches international airspace.

  • linus
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Re: North Korea
Reply #18
Wow, South Korea president Park Geun-hye ousted by court because of a corruption scandal... take note, America.

I guess there will be new tensions soon, when North Korea tests where the line goes with the new president.

  • ToThePoint
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Re: North Korea
Reply #19
Nominating for best BLOOPER of 2017....

BBC correspondent reporting (via Skype)  on the impeachment of the South Korean President

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5A1wg5FA-g
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

  • meepmeep
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Re: North Korea
Reply #20


Quote
The Trump administration gave its clearest signal yet that it would consider taking military action against North Korea, as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Friday that "all options are on the table" to deter the threat from Pyongyang.

Tensions are running high in Northeast Asia, with North Korea making observable progress toward its goal of building a missile that could reach the U.S. mainland and China incensed over South Korea's decision to deploy an American antimissile battery.

Tillerson's remarks, ruling out diplomatic talks and leaving the door open to military action, will fuel fears in the region that the Trump administration is seriously considering what Washington euphemistically calls "kinetic" options.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/tillerson-says-all-options-are-on-the-table-when-it-comes-to-north-korea/2017/03/17/e6b3e64e-0a83-11e7-bd19-fd3afa0f7e2a_story.html

btw this is a photo of a North Korean soldier taking a picture of Tillerson:


At first glance, I didn't even really look at it and was scrolling quickly so I thought it was an American reporter trying to get info because Tillerson only allowed ONE journalist (:airquote: journalist :airquote: from IJR) to come along, and everyone else has been shut out. This is what we have become.

:thisisfine:

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Re: North Korea
Reply #21
Tillerson is so completely incapable of doing this job.

eta: I'd like to think that the rank incompetence on display would kill "we need a BUSINESSMAN to run the government!" mindset but we all know it won't

  • meepmeep
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Re: North Korea
Reply #22
Yes, but who could've possibly known that in advance? :ohdear:

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Re: North Korea
Reply #23

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Re: North Korea
Reply #24
hoping "fatigue" is a euphemism for "poisoning"

  • MikeS
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Re: North Korea
Reply #25
Tillerson also dissed the US Ambassador to Japan by not having a dinner/meal with their family.  Something that the secretary of state has done when visiting a country pretty much for the last 50 to 100 years.  Looks like he just did that to the South Korean Ambassador too.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #26
Tillerson also dissed the US Ambassador to Japan by not having a dinner/meal with their family.  Something that the secretary of state has done when visiting a country pretty much for the last 50 to 100 years.  Looks like he just did that to the South Korean Ambassador too.

He was just too tuckered out.

Seriously.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #27
whole point is to start a big fucking war with NK. Why bother meeting with the people who are gonna say "dude, don't do this, we don't want our cities nuked"?

  • meepmeep
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Re: North Korea
Reply #28
Guys, can I just take a minute to say something?

I'm really glad we didn't elect the hawkish candidate.

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Re: North Korea
Reply #29
where is rednoise so I can call him an idiot

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Re: North Korea
Reply #30
I miss Rednoise.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: North Korea
Reply #31
guessing hes living in shame

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Re: North Korea
Reply #32
or he bwrved himself

  • el jefe
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Re: North Korea
Reply #33
Tillerson also dissed the US Ambassador to Japan by not having a dinner/meal with their family.  Something that the secretary of state has done when visiting a country pretty much for the last 50 to 100 years.  Looks like he just did that to the South Korean Ambassador too.

He was just too tuckered out.

Seriously.
there's also the very real possibility that tillerson didn't know that was a tradition.  after all, he is an oil executive who doesn't know anything about diplomacy.

which goes back to my ubiquitous point that the most important thing to know about trump and most of his people (and imo this is still underappreciated) is that they don't know anything about their jobs.

  • Bilirubin
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Re: North Korea
Reply #34
Wait there are ambassadors? I thought Trump got them all fired during the transition