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Topic: obamacare repeal effort thread (Read 6238 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • linus
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #50
Trump's job is to take credit for successes. If he were to also shoulder blame for failures, there'd be no time for golf.

  • JonF
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #51
Trumpdon'tcare.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #52
Trumpcare is the correct term no matter what people say.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Fenrir
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #53
Trumpcare is the correct term no matter what people say.

Try again. Still contains the word care.
It's what plants crave.

  • Spode
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #54

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #55

  • bullet
  • points?
Naughty Raven. You're supposed to edit the CSS, not put inline styles in the templates. :p

Code: (Find in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: square;
}
Code: (Replace in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: circle;
}
Inline styles are so 90's.
  • bullet
  • points?
Naughty Raven. You're supposed to edit the CSS, not put inline styles in the templates. :p

Code: (Find in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: square;
}
Code: (Replace in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: circle;
}
Inline styles are so 90's.
  • bullet
  • points?
Naughty Raven. You're supposed to edit the CSS, not put inline styles in the templates. :p

Code: (Find in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: square;
}
Code: (Replace in index.css) [Select]
.bbc_list {
    text-align: left;
    list-style-type: circle;
}
Inline styles are so 90's.
nah I was just seeing what you can do with the bbcode as is.

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #56
possibly another republican senator voting against it

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/dean-heller-obamacare-republicans-235978

dean heller had a town hall where he voiced several major complaints about the bill and had nothing supportive say about it.

eta: heller is one of the few gop senators considered vulnerable in 2018

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #57
Ezra Klein (and apparently also David brooks) plugs the theory that the aca repeal & replace effort is designed to fail (!)

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/10/14872916/republican-health-plan-designed-to-fail-ahca

fascinating, if true.

I'm well under 50% convinced, though.  I am not even comfortable assuming this will fail.  and if it does fail, I don't think you need the conspiratorial assumption that it was designed to, to explain it.
Nah. As far as I can tell the bill is basically the result of the Repubs being the dogs that caught the car.

Trump has said that if this fails then he'll just let Obamacare fail (death spiral) and blame Dems.  I'd like to think that will backfire since Reps have both houses and the Exec, but I'm not really sure.
this is one of their rhetorical tactics.  I also doubt its effectiveness.  to whatever extent the democrats are going to be blamed for blocking the aca repeal, they are already blamed for passing it in the first place.

the intra-party threat they're using is that any republicans who vote against it will be branded as having "protected obamacare".  they are presenting it as a dichotomy:  either you're for this particular replacement or you're for obamacare.  I think ryan actually called it "a binary choice". 

that threat might actually be effective against moderate republicans, especially if coupled with the threat of primary challenges, because if they made good on it, I think the charge would actually stick to moderates, in the eyes of gop base voters.  against the tea partiers, I feel like it would ring hollow.  therefore, I don't think the threat will be effective at all against them.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #58
It's still baffling to me that they had seven years to plan something, and the best they could throw together in apparently a short amount of time was this piece of shit, and they're going all-in a bill that's going to dynamite the insurance industry lmao

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #59
they still can't actually even talk about what they threw together. they just attack that ACA as if this makes their turd better.

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #60
between the threat of branding moderates as "protecting obamacare" and some of the moderate outreach I mentioned in the OP, it seems like trump & gop leadership are offering a carrot and stick to the moderates, but really neither to the tea party.

possibilities:

<> they are banking that the tea party is bluffing and will ultimately decide to vote for the bill?  that would be contrary to how they have always behaved in the past. 

<> they think they'll pick up democrats?  seems unlikely they'd succeed.  even more unlikely that they'd get enough to offset their losses on the right.  but it's still possible they think they'll get some democrats.  after all, "everyone hates obamacare", right?

<> they haven't thought this through or don't really have a plan to get the votes?  maybe.  ryan and mcconnel are probably trying to plan things as well as they can, but there is an erratic shithead running the show and they can only do so much to keep the situation under control.

<> they are just in a politically difficult situation, where they have built up an expectation that they'll repeal and replace the bill, but have irreconcilable internal differences over how to do it?  seems to explain a lot of it.  and, if true, it doesn't matter much how they proceed.  if they can't do it, they can't do it.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #61
don't ever underestimate the ability of shitty democrats to fuck things up. blue dogs are how we got into this mess.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #62
don't ever underestimate the ability of shitty democrats to fuck things up. blue dogs are how we got into this mess.

My Rep is a dumb ass blue dog. I called several times last week and you better believe I'm going to flood his office when this thing gets close to a floor vote.

If any Democrat is actually dumb enough to vote for this thing, I may gain a lot of sympathy for the bernout party purity/'democrats are completely useless and deserve zero support' idiots.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #63
fuck joe lieberman forever

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #64

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #65
amen on the eternal lieberman fucking

and the blue dogs might yet fuck this up

however, if the aca survives here, we will have the blue dogs to thank for it.  this reluctance from moderate republicans right here, right now, is the dividend from all the watering down that was done to please the blue dog democrats back in 2009-2010.  by making sure the bill was something that could clear the 60-vote threshold in the senate, they ensured any future repeal effort would be politically difficult, whatever congress's composition.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #66
otoh if they had allowed B. Hussein Obama to pull the FULL COMMUNISM NOW lever, we'd be living in a post-class utopian society

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #67

  • linus
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #68
between the threat of branding moderates as "protecting obamacare" and some of the moderate outreach I mentioned in the OP, it seems like trump & gop leadership are offering a carrot and stick to the moderates, but really neither to the tea party.

possibilities:

<> they are banking that the tea party is bluffing and will ultimately decide to vote for the bill?  that would be contrary to how they have always behaved in the past. 

<> they think they'll pick up democrats?  seems unlikely they'd succeed.  even more unlikely that they'd get enough to offset their losses on the right.  but it's still possible they think they'll get some democrats.  after all, "everyone hates obamacare", right?

<> they haven't thought this through or don't really have a plan to get the votes?  maybe.  ryan and mcconnel are probably trying to plan things as well as they can, but there is an erratic shithead running the show and they can only do so much to keep the situation under control.

<> they are just in a politically difficult situation, where they have built up an expectation that they'll repeal and replace the bill, but have irreconcilable internal differences over how to do it?  seems to explain a lot of it.  and, if true, it doesn't matter much how they proceed.  if they can't do it, they can't do it.
Might failing to get the replacement through be the least bad option? Then all republicans can at least stay united in opposition to obamacare and individually claim to either have fought for repeal or prevented flaws in the current specific replacement.

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #69
If Trumpcare doesn't get enough votes to pass, what happens to the critical path to getting anything done in Congress?  Will they be able to move right on to tax reform?

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #70
between the threat of branding moderates as "protecting obamacare" and some of the moderate outreach I mentioned in the OP, it seems like trump & gop leadership are offering a carrot and stick to the moderates, but really neither to the tea party.

possibilities:

<> they are banking that the tea party is bluffing and will ultimately decide to vote for the bill?  that would be contrary to how they have always behaved in the past. 

<> they think they'll pick up democrats?  seems unlikely they'd succeed.  even more unlikely that they'd get enough to offset their losses on the right.  but it's still possible they think they'll get some democrats.  after all, "everyone hates obamacare", right?

<> they haven't thought this through or don't really have a plan to get the votes?  maybe.  ryan and mcconnel are probably trying to plan things as well as they can, but there is an erratic shithead running the show and they can only do so much to keep the situation under control.

<> they are just in a politically difficult situation, where they have built up an expectation that they'll repeal and replace the bill, but have irreconcilable internal differences over how to do it?  seems to explain a lot of it.  and, if true, it doesn't matter much how they proceed.  if they can't do it, they can't do it.
Might failing to get the replacement through be the least bad option? Then all republicans can at least stay united in opposition to obamacare and individually claim to either have fought for repeal or prevented flaws in the current specific replacement.
I think each congressman and senator is going to vote for what they believe to be the least bad option.  as far as trump and leadership are concerned, I don't know the answer to that. 

it is definitely a big negative to fail to deliver on a major campaign promise and long-running, central goal of your party.  especially if your party has full control of government.  that must be  bad for morale and confidence in leadership.  that in turn probably makes them less effective at pushing other goals going forward.  ...   if it seems like leadership is in control and getting things done, you're more likely to help them, to be on the winning side, or at least to stay out of their way.  if leadership looks like bumbling losers, there's nothing to be gained by helping them, less fear of getting in their way, and even some impetus to get off the sinking ship.

but whether this is a net negative depends on who you are, how much you care about repealing the aca, and how much you and your priorities would fare under the various counterfactuals.

as far as the aca haters go, a failure here might finally break their will.

  • el jefe
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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #71
If Trumpcare doesn't get enough votes to pass, what happens to the critical path to getting anything done in Congress?  Will they be able to move right on to tax reform?
interesting questions.

with a failure, morale and confidence in leadership will be damaged.  that will make everything else more difficult.

I actually think they may get tax reform done anyway.  republicans love tax cuts (which is what their tax "reform" would really be).  even the moderate ones.  if they keep it simple and bland, and don't make any hard choices, I think they can keep their caucus together, and maybe even pick off a democrat or two. 

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #72
some part of me vaguely feels like i should not unsubscribe from the white house's now-daily spam because i'd miss out on insights like this:

Quote
WHITE HOUSE MEMO:
Today, President Trump will meet with victims of Obamacare -- individuals, businesses, and others negatively impacted by the law.

it's just good to keep track on how the other side is framing things. the ACA is now the rape of nanking i guess

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #73
some part of me vaguely feels like i should not unsubscribe from the white house's now-daily spam because i'd miss out on insights like this:

Quote
WHITE HOUSE MEMO:
Today, President Trump will meet with victims of Obamacare -- individuals, businesses, and others negatively impacted by the law.

it's just good to keep track on how the other side is framing things. the ACA is now the rape of nanking i guess

The ACA is oppression and suffering.

The AHCA gives you freedom. The freedom to leave behind this earthly body with all of its pain and suffering and taste the sweet, sweet relief and repose of death. :unsmith:

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Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #74
re: process, there's some fast-approaching window where they'll lose the ability to do reconciliation, so any sort of Obamacare repeal would be put off until next year.