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Topic: Some heads are gonna roll  (Read 18810 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #325
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?

Where do you classify:
Consensual sex with long term, committed partner of opposite sex?
Consensual sex with long term, committed partner of same sex?
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #326
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities. You can't know about her degree of consent when you just hire her for a quick fuck.

You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #327
You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.

Well you don't *know* this.

Maybe she needs a good price on Sears windows?

Maybe she is awestruck by Dave's brilliance and in a bout of adoration toward this world-saving guru, gives it up for a hopeful privileged position in the New World Order?

Maybe she's a dental hygienist who has heard the rumour of an unbrushed, unwashed bucket-shitter who lives in the Missouri woods and she likes to combine uncontrollable odd fetishes with professional challenges?

Any of which could compromise the enthusiasm or even the consent. :-)
  • Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 06:20:36 AM by Photon

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #328
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities. You can't know about her degree of consent when you just hire her for a quick fuck.

You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.
There are many married women who are not consenting enthusiastically, but rather out of a sense of duty, or perhaps fear that their husband will leave them and they will be disadvantaged economically.  And there are also a fair number of prostitutes who simply enjoy sex more than other women and they enjoy other aspects as well, such as the variety, the no strings attached aspect, etc.  One thing I will agree with you on though, is that it's a very complex topic, and every situation is different. 

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #329
Dave, why would a married woman consent to having sex with someone who wasn't her spouse "out of a sense of duty"?
Why do I bother?

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #330
With their own spouse ....

Out of a sense of duty

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #331
Why is sex with a person coerced ito prostitution as bad as sex with someone married to another person.  In one the person you're having sex with isn't really consenting, but her handler is, whereas in the other the person you're having sex with is consent in, but her spouse isn't.

Why is one as bad as the other?
Why do I bother?

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #332
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities. You can't know about her degree of consent when you just hire her for a quick fuck.

You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.
There are many married women who are not consenting enthusiastically, but rather out of a sense of duty, or perhaps fear that their husband will leave them and they will be disadvantaged economically.  And there are also a fair number of prostitutes who simply enjoy sex more than other women and they enjoy other aspects as well, such as the variety, the no strings attached aspect, etc.  One thing I will agree with you on though, is that it's a very complex topic, and every situation is different. 
Keep telling yourself there are street prostitutes who are in the sex trade because they really enjoy sex. It's a fantasy.

A few of the actors in porn feel less exploited, in part because they are paid well and the work is much safer than hooking on the streets. There are niche professions such as cam girls, sex therapists, etc., who have much more control over what they are required to do and with whom they do it, and some of these women may actually enjoy the work. Only some, though. I've seen documentaries that feature porn actors being coerced into acts they clearly don't want to perform. You'd never guess from seeing the final edited product.

Prostitutes rarely get to choose their Johns, and many of the men who seek them out are pretty awful human beings, both physically and mentally. They are always in danger of being assaulted, are very likely to have experienced beatings (by johns as well as pimps) and other abuse. They are often afraid of the police, for good reasons. They are more likely to be murdered than women in ordinary situations.

Through my work, I knew a lot of prostitutes because I looked after their children. I never encountered a single one who enjoyed it. They did it for money, to support themselves and their kids, or to support their drug habits. One mother came in one day on top of the moon happy, because she'd been hired as a stripper for a club, which meant she could stop hooking. This woman was a minority and illiterate, with two children to support, and fiercely determined they'd have a better life than her.

I also have known women who were in the sex trade briefly and got out. They were defiantly positive about the sex trade until they got out of it, and then the horror stories started coming out.

It's a sick, abusive, exploitive industry, Dave, regardless of what your fantasies lead you to believe.

You sound naïve and out of touch.

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #333
Keep telling yourself there are street prostitutes who are in the sex trade because they really enjoy sex. It's a fantasy.
Yes but it's a fantasy they really want their customers to believe.
So dave is doing them a huge, compassionate, favor here!
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #334
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities. You can't know about her degree of consent when you just hire her for a quick fuck.

You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.
There are many married women who are not consenting enthusiastically, but rather out of a sense of duty, or perhaps fear that their husband will leave them and they will be disadvantaged economically.  And there are also a fair number of prostitutes who simply enjoy sex more than other women and they enjoy other aspects as well, such as the variety, the no strings attached aspect, etc. One thing I will agree with you on though, is that it's a very complex topic, and every situation is different. 
And how do you find those prostitutes, dave?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #335
Funny thing- You know which kind of prostitutes might have a bigger chance of actually enjoying what they did?

TEMPLE prostitutes!
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #336
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities. You can't know about her degree of consent when you just hire her for a quick fuck.

You know the married woman is consenting enthusiastically. So that is better than taking advantage of a prostitute.
There are many married women who are not consenting enthusiastically, but rather out of a sense of duty, or perhaps fear that their husband will leave them and they will be disadvantaged economically.  And there are also a fair number of prostitutes who simply enjoy sex more than other women and they enjoy other aspects as well, such as the variety, the no strings attached aspect, etc.  One thing I will agree with you on though, is that it's a very complex topic, and every situation is different. 
Keep telling yourself there are street prostitutes who are in the sex trade because they really enjoy sex. It's a fantasy.

A few of the actors in porn feel less exploited, in part because they are paid well and the work is much safer than hooking on the streets. There are niche professions such as cam girls, sex therapists, etc., who have much more control over what they are required to do and with whom they do it, and some of these women may actually enjoy the work. Only some, though. I've seen documentaries that feature porn actors being coerced into acts they clearly don't want to perform. You'd never guess from seeing the final edited product.

Prostitutes rarely get to choose their Johns, and many of the men who seek them out are pretty awful human beings, both physically and mentally. They are always in danger of being assaulted, are very likely to have experienced beatings (by johns as well as pimps) and other abuse. They are often afraid of the police, for good reasons. They are more likely to be murdered than women in ordinary situations.

Through my work, I knew a lot of prostitutes because I looked after their children. I never encountered a single one who enjoyed it. They did it for money, to support themselves and their kids, or to support their drug habits. One mother came in one day on top of the moon happy, because she'd been hired as a stripper for a club, which meant she could stop hooking. This woman was a minority and illiterate, with two children to support, and fiercely determined they'd have a better life than her.

I also have known women who were in the sex trade briefly and got out. They were defiantly positive about the sex trade until they got out of it, and then the horror stories started coming out.

It's a sick, abusive, exploitive industry, Dave, regardless of what your fantasies lead you to believe.

You sound naïve and out of touch.
Just part and parcel of the bluffoonic profile.
Are we there yet?

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #337
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?

:sadyes:

Dave, you have no clue.


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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #338
Anyway you are right that the sex trade is a very bad thing.
Not necessarily. It all hangs on consent.
Well, it can be a bad thing even if all parties consent. Depending on the effect that it has on one or more of the consenting parties.
Which is why I said not necessarily.
But you also said "it all hangs on consent" directly after that, implying that it was only a bad thing if consent was absent. My point was that whether it is bad or not doesn't necessarily only depend on consent.

Interesting.  I'd have said consent was the key justification.  Obviously all moral decisions depend on other general criteria as well, like are you holding up traffic, or putting other lives in danger.
although, that would actually be pretty awesome as long as it was consensual.

just saying.
Love is like a magic penny
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if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #339
To get back on topic, now that both the FBI director and NSA director have testified before Congress that there is no evidence to support Trump's claim of Obama wiretapping Trump Tower or the Trump campaign, I'm curious how Dave will spin this.

Was Trump's lie despicable, Dave? What should be the consequences of his lie (and slander and libel)?

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #340
Anyway you are right that the sex trade is a very bad thing.
Not necessarily. It all hangs on consent.
Well, it can be a bad thing even if all parties consent. Depending on the effect that it has on one or more of the consenting parties.
Which is why I said not necessarily.
But you also said "it all hangs on consent" directly after that, implying that it was only a bad thing if consent was absent. My point was that whether it is bad or not doesn't necessarily only depend on consent.

Interesting.  I'd have said consent was the key justification.  Obviously all moral decisions depend on other general criteria as well, like are you holding up traffic, or putting other lives in danger.
Well yes, as far as legality goes consent should be the primary consideration. What I'm getting at is that over the years I've known several prostitutes, not in a business context but as friends and acquaintances. In that context you tend to hear what they really think. That, along with having known a range of men personally, has convinced me that the whole industry is pretty corrosive to people's spirits. This applies to both the prostitutes and their customers.

Not that I'd argue for making it illegal. I'm just inclined to think that having it legal is probably the least bad option.
Truth is out of style

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #341
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Ok, so where does sex with married prostitutes fit on this scale?
Truth is out of style

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #342
Dave, did you know it is hard for a flat-chested woman to be a 10?
IME, it's often quite easy. :parrot:

(subjective, of course)
Truth is out of style

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #343
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities.
This is all true, but arguably applies to any non-ideal career. Lots of people hate their jobs.
Truth is out of style

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #344
Dave not answer my question. Sad!
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #345
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

Sex with wife - 10
Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7
Ditto above, but coerced by pimp - 1
Sex by married person without spousal consent with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced - 5 (depends on reason)
Ditto above but with someone else's spouse - 1

Does that clear things up?
Only insofar as you still don't get it and are being flippant about something that is much more complex than you seem to think.

Prostitution isn't simply defined by a pimp-prostitute relationship. A woman may be a prostitute because she was driven to it as a young homeless girl, or because she was uneducated and had little other choice of employment, or because of extreme poverty, or because of substance abuse, none of these are a result of real choice, and her consent is compromised by these externalities.
This is all true, but arguably applies to any non-ideal career. Lots of people hate their jobs.
True, but in most of those cases, they could, if they wanted to, quit. Without the threat of a beating or worse.
Are we there yet?

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #346
Quote from: Dave Hawkins
Morality rating system - 10=good, 1=bad

[...]

Sex by unmarried person with unmarried prostitute who is not being coerced by a pimp, etc - 7

Wait. On your scale a 7 appears to indicate something is somewhat virtuous. I'd think something like giving to a food bank. Maybe that would warrant a 10? I can't get into your head, but I'm imagining someone trying to tilt their karmic scale into the positive, being like, "well, I could donate to charity, or, I guess I could have sex with a prostitute..."

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #347
Ouch Dave.  Got a timeline for when those heads are gonna roll? Cause Trump's been called out as a liar AGAIN.

http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2017/03/20/james-comey-testimony-was-a-disaster-for-donald-trump/

People can spin it all they want. People can pretend to be lawyers and argue about "lawyerly answers." People can shout about leaks all the want. It's not going to matter. Today was not a good day for President Trump no matter what comes of the Gorsuch hearings.
There were two major questions at stake today, and the answers to both steamroll President Trump's rantings and ravings about them on Twitter and in public.
The first issue deals with the FBI, and whether or not they're investigating Russian influence on the 2016 election including links to the Trump campaign and if those links included any criminal activity. President Trump tweeted this morning:
Quote
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!
The second question goes back to Trump's hysterical tweets about his phones being tapped inside of Trump Tower. Since making that initial allegation, he nor his team have backed off. They've adjusted their arguments to say Trump was talking about different kinds of surveillance and not just phone taps. After one week a media firestorm and a week of Republicans, including those from Congressional intelligence committees, saying there was no evidence to support the claims, James Comey confirmed Trump's claims are bunk. When asked about the allegations in the Trump tweets, Comey replied, "I have no information that supports those tweets."
Trump supporters chirped in my ears this is a "lawyerly" answer and doesn't specifically address Trump's claims, and that's preposterous. Comey heads up the agency that would have to petition the FISA Court for a warrant for such surveillance. If there were anything credible behind Trump's tweets, Comey would have refused to answer as he did any number of times when the question concerned an ongoing investigation.
I argued this morning Trump's tweets appeared to extend from a nervousness over what would happen today. It seems he had reason to be. The head of the FBI pretty much said the President was lying when he tweeted what he did, two weeks ago.
With this new information, I am hoping Congressional Republicans have the fortitude to start pushing back on President Trump or to persuade him to give up his Twitter account as it has hurt him more than helped.
One can only imagine what the tweet-storm will look like tomorrow.


Guys.  TRUTH MATTERS.   Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.    Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.  100% truth. Needs to be our goal.   Without that as our goal, society will crumble.

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #348
But Dave believes trump. Case closed. End of story.
Love is like a magic penny
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if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Some heads are gonna roll
Reply #349
Thank you all for your opinions