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Topic: How much of reality is determined by ideology? (Read 390 times) previous topic - next topic

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How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Holy cow. Has anyone here ever run across academia.org before?
I found it through the following link which showed up in google news under patriot act:
http://www.academia.org/the-bestial-patriot-act/

It's like conservapedia but less funny.

But it got me thinking about map territory errors and how the new atheists used to (or maybe still do) like to call themselves the 'reality based community'. At the time, it was pretty clear they held onto only a a small fraction more basis in reality than the other wingnuts (extremes rise to counter extremes I guess) and I actually developed a cataloging method to place dialog on a continuum of map territory error with morton's demon being a convenient metaphor of the error itself.

After quite a bit of consideration I decided that ideology of any sort, hell, almost any norms, were used as a direct replacement for reality and that the scale was wide enough to make the reality gap division between new atheists/dawkins science god worshipper types and fundamentalists very very slender.

I also decided that in general, about 95% of everyone's reality is directly invented by our maps and never checked against sensory perception or subject to any sort of falsification/risky prediction at all, maybe more but it depends how you count and I was being generous by calling conversations about the weather 'reality based'.

Then my brain broke and I stopped working on anything with an outline longer than a page. Anyway, seeing that site made me wonder, how 'objective' do you see yourself as being? How objective do you see others as being?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #1
Holy cow. Has anyone here ever run across academia.org before?
I only got wind of it when erstwhile TR poster*, "Socrates", "published" some of his "work" there.

* I was going to write "erstwhile TR Alternative Reality Enthusiast", but I guess that would be a bit contentious in light of the theme of this thread.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RexT
Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #2

Then my brain broke and I stopped working on anything with an outline longer than a page. Anyway, seeing that site made me wonder, how 'objective' do you see yourself as being? How objective do you see others as being?
I mean, how objective can anyone really be? Objectivity requires three main criteria; knowledge of reality, honesty and the ability to recognize self-error. It's probably possible to construct an objectivity test using the aforementioned criteria.

I consider myself as getting more objective over time.

ETA: why is this in Philosophy? I think this is more of a question for science.
  • Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:17:51 PM by RexT

Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #3
I think it's a philosophical question about science. That's why it's here. I, as always, am fine with mods moving anything I post anywhere they want. But I don't think objectivity requires knowledge of reality. In fact, I suspect that is one of the bigger hurdles to objectivity. Depending what you mean by knowledge.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RexT
Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #4
Okay, I think objectivity is either a way of approaching reality or else the term is somewhat less useful. Likewise, for knowledge. If knowledge doesn't correspond to reality then to what does it refer? I mean, someone could use the term knowledge and what they really mean is belief or feeling.

What do you mean saying knowledge is a stumbling block to objectivity? Are you saying something like, the raw sense of objectivity, that impulse to be fair, honest, right? Fine, but right about, if not reality, then what?

  • Pandora
  • Resurrected Robot
Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #5
Most people run on a tottering collection of thoughtless routine, assumptions, and hypotheses.  I only make a distinction between assumptions and hypotheses, in the sense that assumptions may be accepted from an outside source (eg the media or other pop culture), whereas a hypothesis would be something created by the actor in question.

Most people suck huge donkey balls at being objective.  Nothing we do is without an emotional element (exception for the sociopaths among us).  Most people never question their assumptions and never re-evaluate their hypotheses.  They start with something they take as true, and as long as that thing can be made to fit their interpretation of the world around them, they will never question it.

I think I'm *marginally* more objective than the average human, only because I recognize that most of my thoughts are based on things without proof, and I even question them once in a while!  Still a long, long way from objective though ;)
Just because you're unique doesn't mean you're useful.

Re: How much of reality is determined by ideology?
Reply #6
Holy cow. Has anyone here ever run across academia.org before?
I only got wind of it when erstwhile TR poster*, "Socrates", "published" some of his "work" there.

* I was going to write "erstwhile TR Alternative Reality Enthusiast", but I guess that would be a bit contentious in light of the theme of this thread.
I think that was academia.edu, a site for "papers" that anyone could post to.