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Topic: Harvey Weinstein (Read 1141 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #75
Jesus Christ teeth. Way to make these women (and a few men) appear - again - to be without agency and reacting to manipulation, poor helpless things.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. I am aware how extremely difficult it is for individual victims of sexual violence to come forward and make an accusation like this. But we also know that serial predators like Weinstein largely succeed in their behavior because individual victims feel isolated. After the initial news break we've seen a lot of people come forward, including famous people who have been brave enough to use their names and faces and discuss the abuse they experienced. But what I'm asking here is where that initial NYTimes tip came from, and whether that initial tip was politically motivated.

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Or maybe it's just that having a pussy grabbing asshole in the white house has created a climate in which more women are more angry and more willing to step up and say outright that this shit happens all the time and it is not in any way okay for it to have the kind of impact it frequently does on the victims of this bullshit behaviour by men who have power.

Absolutely possible. But it's weird that out of all the men in power, somehow the only people who are being 'outed' here by women who are enraged at the presence of a pussy-grabbing rapist in the white house are Jewish and gay men in Hollywood and the newsmedia. Again, I fucking recognize that any man (or woman) can be a sexual predator. But it is also somewhat strange that these allegations have been limited to liberal institutions and specifically to men belonging to minority demographics that have historically been stereotypes as being sexual perverts and that these scandals have dropped at a time when Trump is at war with the media and has been making threats against free operation of the press. Meanwhile a $32 million dollar settlement by Bill O'Reilly is going completely under the radar as he prepares to return to Fox, and somehow none of these allegations are hitting republicans or republican-leaning heads of business.

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And frankly, I don't give a shit how liberal they are if they're also shitty people who took advantage of young, vulnerable powerless people that they had the power to harm. If that's the kind of person you are, your 'liberal' politics are a sham anyway, it's just fucking roleplay.

I am not defending anyone and I'm certainly not defending anyone by saying "Well, they're liberals." What I'm saying is that this rolling scandal could not have been perfectly designed to appeal to the "look at the disgusting liberal Jewish race defilers and homosexual pedophiles that are out to rape our beautiful white women and our young boys while filling our heads with liberal propaganda" neonazi demographic. That concerns me, especially given how we know that Trump-affiliated Russian and Breitbart reporting strongly focused on getting the left to tear itself apart during the election cycle, and given how closely the message being communicated aligns with the viewpoint of those outlets.

Again, I am not doubting a single word of these testimonies and I am not doubting that each and every woman (or man) who has come forward did so from a position of pain and honesty. I am also not questioning whether these people should be part of the public discussion, publicly shamed, or removed from positions of power in their companies. What I am questioning is whether the omission of similar activities by right-leaning WASPs may indicate that there is a deeper political motive involved in the specific way this is being reported that is pushing a neonazi narrative about the sexuality of certain minority groups into the mainstream.


Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #77
What I do wonder about though is the timing and the fact allegations are primarily coming out against liberal members of Hollywood and general members of the newsmedia, and the fact that Trump has previously threatened to create scandals for those groups (Hollywood and newsmedia) based on insider knowledge if they don't toe the line. Using painful experiences from women's pasts to manipulate the news climate and justify a purge of the newsmedia seems like exactly the kind of horrific and repulsive thing that no reasonable human being would even consider but Trump would revel in, and these scandals have been a windfall for the Trump whitehouse.

Why would this even be a concern for you? Even if you're right I don't care about the timing or potential conspiracy to "get" these left leaning guys for being sexual harassers and abusers. They need to be got and it should have happened a long time ago.

I'm not even tempted a little bit to give these guys a pass on the off chance that going after them might help Trump out.

It's a concern for me because a stereotypical Jewish face with a stereotypical Jewish name has been plastered all over the news for a month in a news story that basically boils down to "Jews run hollywood and the media and live to rape white women" at a time when neonazism is on the rise. It's a concern because the newest part of that story is now "Hollywood is also full of gay pedophiles who just want to rape poor straight white boys" at a time when the white house is trying to dismantle legal protections for LGBTQ people.  It's a concern because this is a white house that has explicitly established a news agency to report on crime by Hispanic immigrants.

The issue isn't what is being included in these reports. The issue is that this has been handled by the media in a way which seems explicitly designed to reinforce radical right-wing race and gender ideology.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #78
Jesus Christ

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #79
Teeth, have we not fairly recently gone through a couple of highly publicised similar scandals featuring Fox and its merry band of sexual predators being sued/ejected in similar fashion?

Afa the Jewishness of the current round of arseholes is concerned, it frankly never crossed my mind, but then it wouldn't. I have read that Hollywood employs a fair number of Jewish men in the upper strata of directors, producers, talent, etc., but it isn't something I ever think about because or one, I don't care, and two, considering the unending flow of uber-patriotic nationalist war-worshipping, America praising films that stream out of Hollywood yearly, even if punctuated by a fair number of more erudite and less violence prone offerings, it's hard to even imagine right wingers wanting to sabotage that particular bastion of Jewishness.


  • ksen
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #80
C'mon ladies, take one for the tribe.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #81
Teeth, have we not fairly recently gone through a couple of highly publicised similar scandals featuring Fox and its merry band of sexual predators being sued/ejected in similar fashion?

Afa the Jewishness of the current round of arseholes is concerned, it frankly never crossed my mind, but then it wouldn't. I have read that Hollywood employs a fair number of Jewish men in the upper strata of directors, producers, talent, etc., but it isn't something I ever think about because or one, I don't care, and two, considering the unending flow of uber-patriotic nationalist war-worshipping, America praising films that stream out of Hollywood yearly, even if punctuated by a fair number of more erudite and less violence prone offerings, it's hard to even imagine right wingers wanting to sabotage that particular bastion of Jewishness.



There was basically just O'Reilly and Ailes. Ailes left Fox as he was dying, with no major upheaval in the administration or mission of the network. O'Reilly settled and it was dropped from the media almost immediately, and now is reentering Fox's regular circulation. There was nothing at all remotely resembling the media cycle we're seeing with Weinstein. The messaging there was that Fox News was hostile towards women (which was never in any fucking doubt) but the manner in which the Weinstein reporting has been undertaken carries a lot of baggage that goes a lot further than "here is a guy who was a rapist." This includes, for example, the unending focus on the attractiveness of his body and decisions to use stock photos of him looking slovenly and unkempt.  Additionally, if this is all about the brave women who have come forward, why has the media completely ignored Lupita Nyong'o and has focused entirely and exhaustively on white women? I don't even know if it's intentional, but there are definitely echoes here of centuries-old racist portrayals of Jews in the coverage. The fact that the media then made similar screwups with the handling of the Spacey situation is concerning because it shows a pattern of the media either not being aware or not caring that their reporting of these very real and very criminal acts and the supposed conspiratorial environment in hollywood that empowers them is giving voice to some very scary ideas that the radical rightwing has been trying to inject into general discussion.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #82
Teeth, have we not fairly recently gone through a couple of highly publicised similar scandals featuring Fox and its merry band of sexual predators being sued/ejected in similar fashion?

Afa the Jewishness of the current round of arseholes is concerned, it frankly never crossed my mind, but then it wouldn't. I have read that Hollywood employs a fair number of Jewish men in the upper strata of directors, producers, talent, etc., but it isn't something I ever think about because or one, I don't care, and two, considering the unending flow of uber-patriotic nationalist war-worshipping, America praising films that stream out of Hollywood yearly, even if punctuated by a fair number of more erudite and less violence prone offerings, it's hard to even imagine right wingers wanting to sabotage that particular bastion of Jewishness.



There was basically just O'Reilly and Ailes. Ailes left Fox as he was dying, with no major upheaval in the administration or mission of the network. O'Reilly settled and it was dropped from the media almost immediately, and now is reentering Fox's regular circulation. There was nothing at all remotely resembling the media cycle we're seeing with Weinstein. The messaging there was that Fox News was hostile towards women (which was never in any fucking doubt) but the manner in which the Weinstein reporting has been undertaken carries a lot of baggage that goes a lot further than "here is a guy who was a rapist." This includes, for example, the unending focus on the attractiveness of his body and decisions to use stock photos of him looking slovenly and unkempt.  Additionally, if this is all about the brave women who have come forward, why has the media completely ignored Lupita Nyong'o and has focused entirely and exhaustively on white women? I don't even know if it's intentional, but there are definitely echoes here of centuries-old racist portrayals of Jews in the coverage. The fact that the media then made similar screwups with the handling of the Spacey situation is concerning because it shows a pattern of the media either not being aware or not caring that their reporting of these very real and very criminal acts and the supposed conspiratorial environment in hollywood that empowers them is giving voice to some very scary ideas that the radical rightwing has been trying to inject into general discussion.


I've just looked, and there have been dozens of media references to Nyongo's report of her experiences with Weinstein in the past couple weeks.

I seriously doubt if the visual portrayal of Weinstein is intentionally anything. He's an older man, he's overweight and flabby and seems to like the 'scruffy beard' look, probably because he erroneously thinks it masks his double chin. He isn't smiling in the recent photos, because that would not be what any media would likely think appropriate, and I doubt he's felt much like smiling in any recent photos. He doesn't imo look particularly 'stereotypically Jewish'.

I think you're sliding into paranoid conspiracy thinking. Yes, the right wing is stereotypically anti-Jewish (except they looovve Israel), but do you really think the NYT, CNN and other major media are deliberately pushing alt right memes about Jews?

  • ksen
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #83
Part of it could be that the media, or whatever, is more shocked by the hollywood allegations because those were supposed to be our guys, part of the good team. You expect Fox execs to be shitty towards women because they don't exactly try to hide it. You don't expect guys on your side that have supported women's causes to do this and when it's found out that they do it stings even more.

Also, pretty sure the media is talking about an empowering conspiratorial environment in Hollywood that protected these shitheads because there was an empowering conspiratorial environment in Hollywood that protected these shitheads.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #84
Part of it could be that the media, or whatever, is more shocked by the hollywood allegations because those were supposed to be our guys, part of the good team. You expect Fox execs to be shitty towards women because they don't exactly try to hide it. You don't expect guys on your side that have supported women's causes to do this and when it's found out that they do it stings even more.

Also, pretty sure the media is talking about an empowering conspiratorial environment in Hollywood that protected these shitheads because there was an empowering conspiratorial environment in Hollywood that protected these shitheads.

What ksen says.

There's probably some guilt in the current round of media decrying the sins of Hollywood as well, because there are probably none of the major media platforms that don't have at least a few of this exact type of skeleton tucked away in a closet. I'd bet there've been many internal discussions about how to handle any major rattling that may occur.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #85
I've just looked, and there have been dozens of media references to Nyongo's report of her experiences with Weinstein in the past couple weeks.

And a ton more of Courtney Love. Gwenyth Paltrow and Rose McGowan have basically become the face of this. I understand that McGowan has been pretty involved in getting the accusations out there but there's a reason why Paltrow is being trotted out so often and Nyong'o isn't. Hint: it has to do with stereotypes of race defiling.

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I seriously doubt if the visual portrayal of Weinstein is intentionally anything. He's an older man, he's overweight and flabby and seems to like the 'scruffy beard' look, probably because he erroneously thinks it masks his double chin. He isn't smiling in the recent photos, because that would not be what any media would likely think appropriate, and I doubt he's felt much like smiling in any recent photos. He doesn't imo look particularly 'stereotypically Jewish'.

Yes, I'm sure the newsmedia had perfectly innocent reasons for running the pictures they chose of Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, etc. instead of the other various pictures that were available to them.

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I think you're sliding into paranoid conspiracy thinking. Yes, the right wing is stereotypically anti-Jewish (except they looovve Israel), but do you really think the NYT, CNN and other major media are deliberately pushing alt right memes about Jews?


Breitbart has been crowing about the fact they've controlled the narrative on this one and that they're leveraging the scandal to purge the (((liberal))) (((elite))). Various journalists from real news outlets have been pretty straightforward about the fact that the volume of their coverage and the manner in which they're reporting on the story is largely a response to the pressure they're getting from Breitbart and Fox.

It is possible to condemn a sexual predator in the harshest terms without feeding into a "perverted jews just looking to rape white women any way they can" stereotype. The weinstein coverage has definitely crossed that line IMO and in the current political climate that is very worrying.

  • ksen
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #86
hahaha, teeth gotta teeth

hey, you should stop digging and get those mafia emails out

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #87
It is possible to condemn a sexual predator in the harshest terms without feeding into a "perverted jews just looking to rape white women any way they can" stereotype. The weinstein coverage has definitely crossed that line IMO and in the current political climate that is very worrying.

tbm,

True, pussy grabbers come from all kinds of backgrounds.

D.

  • Monad
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #88
Breitbart has been crowing about the fact they've controlled the narrative on this one and that they're leveraging the scandal to purge the (((liberal))) (((elite))). Various journalists from real news outlets have been pretty straightforward about the fact that the volume of their coverage and the manner in which they're reporting on the story is largely a response to the pressure they're getting from Breitbart and Fox.

That's interesting but if so they are playing a risky game given Trump is essentially the Harvey Weinstein of US presidents. If anything I would have thought this could easily blow up in the pussy grabber's face and I suspect if they are trying to control things it's largely a vain effort to deflect things away from him.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #89
Breitbart has been crowing about the fact they've controlled the narrative on this one and that they're leveraging the scandal to purge the (((liberal))) (((elite))). Various journalists from real news outlets have been pretty straightforward about the fact that the volume of their coverage and the manner in which they're reporting on the story is largely a response to the pressure they're getting from Breitbart and Fox.

That's interesting but if so they are playing a risky game given Trump is essentially the Harvey Weinstein of US presidents. If anything I would have thought this could easily blow up in the pussy grabber's face and I suspect if they are trying to control things it's largely a vain effort to deflect things away from him.

except that it's clear that the double standard is a-ok with the right wing.

  • Monad
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #90
Breitbart has been crowing about the fact they've controlled the narrative on this one and that they're leveraging the scandal to purge the (((liberal))) (((elite))). Various journalists from real news outlets have been pretty straightforward about the fact that the volume of their coverage and the manner in which they're reporting on the story is largely a response to the pressure they're getting from Breitbart and Fox.

That's interesting but if so they are playing a risky game given Trump is essentially the Harvey Weinstein of US presidents. If anything I would have thought this could easily blow up in the pussy grabber's face and I suspect if they are trying to control things it's largely a vain effort to deflect things away from him.

except that it's clear that the double standard is a-ok with the right wing.

Of course it is, but it's not really about them - I bet there are a lot of women out there Trump has sexually harassed with their stories to tell someone who actually cares.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #91
We've already heard a bunch. It hasn't harmed Trump. I'll give you a few guesses why.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #92
I have a solution:  the jewish community should rescind weinstein's juditude.  debarmitzvah him, make him eat bacon, give him back his foreskin, and remove the part of his brain that governs humor. 

and of course the ultimate act of shaming:  when someone asks "hey, isn't weinstein a jewish name?", you say "no.  it's german."  dun dun dun

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #93
We've already heard a bunch. It hasn't harmed Trump. I'll give you a few guesses why.

He's the President, a complication that affects everything.
The women involved are not world famous actors.
Trump's lawyers are currently trying to have even the defamation case against him dropped.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/01/attorneys-argue-trump-was-expressing-political-opinion-by-calling-sexual-harassment-accusers-liars.html

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #94
We've already heard a bunch. It hasn't harmed Trump. I'll give you a few guesses why.

He's the President, a complication that affects everything.
The women involved are not world famous actors.
Trump's lawyers are currently trying to have even the defamation case against him dropped.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/01/attorneys-argue-trump-was-expressing-political-opinion-by-calling-sexual-harassment-accusers-liars.html
clinton's lawyers tried to argue that you can't sue a sitting president.  the supreme court disagreed.  9-0.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #95
We've already heard a bunch. It hasn't harmed Trump. I'll give you a few guesses why.

He's the President, a complication that affects everything.
The women involved are not world famous actors.
Trump's lawyers are currently trying to have even the defamation case against him dropped.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/01/attorneys-argue-trump-was-expressing-political-opinion-by-calling-sexual-harassment-accusers-liars.html
clinton's lawyers tried to argue that you can't sue a sitting president.  the supreme court disagreed.  9-0.

I think they are not claiming he can't be sued because he's president, but that he can't be sued for anything he said while campaigning.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #96
We've already heard a bunch. It hasn't harmed Trump. I'll give you a few guesses why.

He's the President, a complication that affects everything.
The women involved are not world famous actors.
Trump's lawyers are currently trying to have even the defamation case against him dropped.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/01/attorneys-argue-trump-was-expressing-political-opinion-by-calling-sexual-harassment-accusers-liars.html

He wasn't the president when the accusations came out. White supremacists gave him a full pass.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #97
Of course they did. As I said in the post before yours, the argument Trump's lawyers are pushing to have the current suit dismissed is that his defaming of the women occurred while he was campaigning. They are trying to call his statements that the women were lying protected speech because he was campaigning. Idk enough about American law to know whether that is actually true, that you can spout any damn insane false thing if you're campaigning for elected office, but that is what the article claims Trump's lawyers are saying.

Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #98
I thought we were talking about the social consequences of having sexual predation exposed.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Harvey Weinstein
Reply #99
lol look at this garbage take: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-consequence-of-this-new-sexual-counter-revolution-no-sex-at-all/

newflash, my friend, women have been afraid of men for a very long time without any prompting from "feminism"