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Topic: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind (Read 9021 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #25
Unbelievable that Heinz would go to all the trouble of trying to destroy the entire forum site to avoid the truth.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #26
Any sign of any of the H's?
I miss the comedy.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #27
Try some global warming threads.  It's much the same.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #28

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #29
The experience that spork and his team, as well as many others had online, is a familiar pattern. And I mean it historically, not just online.  One can actually build a working device, demonstrate it, get it certified as breaking the DDWFTTW speed record, and to some people it just doesn't matter.  They are sure they are right, and DDWFTTW is impossible, and nothing is ever going to change their mind.  Certainly not anything like facts.

Cassini was the King of astronomy when poor Ole , the great Danish astronomer, calculated the speed of light by observing the eclipses of Jupiter's moon during the years 1668-1674. He simply used science to think about the discrepancy between the eclipses, increasing when the Earth was moving away from Jupiter and decreasing when the Earth was approaching.  Rømer interpreted this as the difference in the times needed for the light to travel between Jupiter and Earth.

He was working under Cassini, but he wanted credit for his great discovery, because nobody else knew what he did, and Cassini was dead wrong about light. so was everyone else, the consensus was light was instant, no speed limit)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rømer%27s_determination_of_the_speed_of_light

Rømer actually bet Cassini, and the time of the coming eclipse of Io was the deciding factor.  Rømer declared the eclipse would be "late", and even gave the exact time it would be visible, based on his knowledge of distance and his calculation of the speed of light.  Cassini declared him wrong, took the bet, and everyone waited to see what would happen.

Rømer was doing science, and the experiment that would prove him right was the time Io was observed coming from behind Jupiter. It was a scientific experiment that should settle the matter, making Rømer famous.

And of course he was right, and Io was observed almost exactly as he predicted (late, because the distance was much greater than the last time Io could be observed) and you might think he was applauded for a new discovery.

Nope.  Cassini and his supporters weaseled and waffled and denied and declared Rømer wrong, and Rømer died with out ever being credited for his discovery, and Cassini went to his grave still believing light was instant.  The facts didn't matter to him, he could not accept them he could not be wrong in his mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJw0B1o8cQ

Most people on the planet do not know the above story.  Nor do they give a shit. 





"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #30
I know it now and still don't give a shit
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • MikeS
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #31
F X is wrong.
On so many levels.

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #32
Hmm, I'm inclined to give him this one though.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #33
Looks like the Aeolus carts finally went faster than the wind directly upwind:

http://www.windenergyevents.com/uncategorized/danish-team-races-faster-than-head-wind-with-10176/

And it was the DTU, probably the most successful team over the years, which also wrote the paper on DDWFTTW:

http://orbit.dtu.dk/fedora/objects/orbit:55484/datastreams/file_3748519/content

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #34
Thanks
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #35
Looks like the Aeolus carts finally went faster than the wind directly upwind:

http://www.windenergyevents.com/uncategorized/danish-team-races-faster-than-head-wind-with-10176/

And it was the DTU, probably the most successful team over the years, which also wrote the paper on DDWFTTW:

http://orbit.dtu.dk/fedora/objects/orbit:55484/datastreams/file_3748519/content
Thanks for the links, A.T.  Too bad (or not?) the H folk are not here to "appreciate" this.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #36
I don't miss the idiots at all
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #37
They were good for a few chuckles.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #38
They were good for a few chuckles.

They were good for much more than that, imho. They fueled the discussion, and engendered many interesting segues. What is there really to discuss now? Preaching to the choir gets old quickly.

But I signed on here just to see RR's long promised video of his small cart exceeding ws. Spring is again here RR, when you get those consistent winds up in Utah. I'm still short of being convinced the much smaller prop could achieve what BB's 17 footer did. Seeing is believing for me. You put a lot of time into that cart. Show us what it can do!!

And speaking of seeing, I heard from our old pal Mac G. yesterday, who's team not only won the Aeolus competition this year, but they finally went faster than the wind. Thought I'd share the video he sent.

"Heres a nice video of one of the fast runs (notice to other car we pass as well as the struggling cyclist J)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXLMRqIxOLI

-Mac G

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #39
@ridgerunner: Heh, I obviously meant to say 'fall' is here' above.  Was reading a post elsewhere by a South African welcoming spring just before and thus the time frame switch.  But please do let us know if you are still planning to do the video showing your cart outrunning smoke or balloons? It would be a first, so I truly hope you'll do it while the winds are still steady there.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #40
Looks like the Aeolus carts finally went faster than the wind directly upwind:

http://www.windenergyevents.com/uncategorized/danish-team-races-faster-than-head-wind-with-10176/

And it was the DTU, probably the most successful team over the years, which also wrote the paper on DDWFTTW:

http://orbit.dtu.dk/fedora/objects/orbit:55484/datastreams/file_3748519/content
Thanks for the links, A.T.  Too bad (or not?) the H folk are not here to "appreciate" this.

BTW: The winning team optimized their cart on a dynamometer, so Galilean Relativity seems still to work fine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd2I3dr3bL8

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #41
RP
I did spend quite a bit on equipment to perform and document an FPV race against a balloon but its still on the shelf. I haven't given up, but the project is clearly not at the top of my list.

Possibly next year...

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #42
Wow, RR. That's what you said 2 years ago. We're talking about 1 day to do the test, a couple more to plan it.  :(

  • spork
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #43
I just got word from the new owners of the Blackbird that they plan to do some runs at El Mirage on the weekend, Nov 11 - 13. It will be their second outing.

If you haven't seen it run, and you want to, this could be your chance.

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #44
I just got word from the new owners of the Blackbird that they plan to do some runs at El Mirage on the weekend, Nov 11 - 13. It will be their second outing.

If you haven't seen it run, and you want to, this could be your chance.

Do you know which configuration they will run?  Downwind or upwind?  Is the config change easy enough to do while at the lake bed?

  • spork
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #45
I'm betting they'll go downwind since the upwind blades are hanging in my garage. :)

It took some real doing to change the configuration the first time (building new blades and reversing the direction of rotation), but I don't recall whether it would take more than 30 minutes now.  Probably not.


  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #46
Downwind sounds more fun, higher ground speeds, plus perhaps a few races could be arranged to a downwind goal.  Conventional sail cart, tacking allowed, against the Blackbird DDW.

I wonder why the new owners did not purchase the upwind blades from you, did you offer?

  • spork
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #47
I told them I wanted to hold onto one set of blades.  They're more than welcome to borrow them if they'd like to give them a go.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #48
I told them I wanted to hold onto one set of blades.  They're more than welcome to borrow them if they'd like to give them a go.

You are so incredibly cool.  And I am sincere about this. Your almost endless fighting over the issue, as well as building the craft are friggin awesome, and I include JB in this praise of course.  I really think TV dropped the ball by not getting you two on the air, all the talk shows, everything.  But it's just too geek for primetime.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #49
Also Mythbusters dropped the ball.  I think they feared you would upstage them, and they really hate that.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭