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Topic: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind (Read 19017 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1925
Have I got this right? In HeinzFizik, any reference frame is inertial if it 'looks' stationary for a 'moment' with respect to the ground. 
Yup!  And you're an idiot if you disagree!  :)

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1926
And I claim that the cart on the treadmill will behave completely differently if there are > 3 boxes of pizza in the same room.  So hey tiny sporky ("Chief Scientist"), have you ever indulged your keen desire for scientific correctness and integrity, and taken a look at whether your cart will continue to advance on the treadmill if there are lots of pizza boxes in the room?  No?  I thought not!  And I do not wonder why; I know why . . . . you are scared shitless of what you will see . . . . wheels magically transforming from circular to square . . . and your fantasy world will implode along with Heinz's empty head.
Hmmm... if there's pizza involved maybe I will do this experiment :)

  • CORed
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1927
And I claim that the cart on the treadmill will behave completely differently if there are > 3 boxes of pizza in the same room.  So hey tiny sporky ("Chief Scientist"), have you ever indulged your keen desire for scientific correctness and integrity, and taken a look at whether your cart will continue to advance on the treadmill if there are lots of pizza boxes in the room?  No?  I thought not!  And I do not wonder why; I know why . . . . you are scared shitless of what you will see . . . . wheels magically transforming from circular to square . . . and your fantasy world will implode along with Heinz's empty head.
Hmmm... if there's pizza involved maybe I will do this experiment :)

I think you should insist that Heinz buy the pizza.

  • CORed
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1928
And I say Bullshit! What is obvious to me is if there is an additional v due to the cart translating up the belt, that is a sure indication that the wheels are sliding since no belt in direct contact with a wheel, and driving that wheel directly can ever drive it so ω > v/r. I asked you for an instance of such and you have not been able to provide it, only makeing up some more bullshit which you cannot support.
This claim is a sure sign that Heinz has no idea what is going on. Let's examine it.

First, a reducto ad absurdem. By Heinz' "logic", if you push the cart with your hand, such that the cart moves up the belt, this "proves" that the cart is losing traction due to vibration, because the wheel necessarily is turning faster than Heinz thinks is possible.

This sounds really stupid, but only because the basic claim is really stupid. In the case of the cart, the propeller is doing the pushing. If Heinz were correct, it would be impossible to push the cart up the belt without the wheel losing traction. I can only conclude that Heinz really doesn't understand how wheels work.


Yes, under HeinzFiziks, the wheel must slip or hop or skip if the cart is advancing on the belt with the wheel under resistive load. No matter if you are pushing it with the external force of hand, or propeller thrust. The only way it could remain in constant traction is if a positive torque like a motor drive were present. Negative torque ( creating a 'braking' force ) is not allowed.

It is a weird form of kinematics based un-reasoning which requires a serious dis-understanding of reference frames etc. Sort of a one way clutch in the mind.

I don't think there's a one way clutch in Heinz' mind. I think it's completely seized up.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1929
He has, however, been clutching at straws for more than a few years.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1930
I'm learning that you (Heinz) are both stupider and more dishonest than I previously recognized.

Brother Daniel,

I never considered you slow but judging from this statement, it looks like you have some catching up to do! :grin:

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1931
And I claim that the cart on the treadmill will behave completely differently if there are > 3 boxes of pizza in the same room.  So hey tiny sporky ("Chief Scientist"), have you ever indulged your keen desire for scientific correctness and integrity, and taken a look at whether your cart will continue to advance on the treadmill if there are lots of pizza boxes in the room?  No?  I thought not!  And I do not wonder why; I know why . . . . you are scared shitless of what you will see . . . . wheels magically transforming from circular to square . . . and your fantasy world will implode along with Heinz's empty head.

Hey Spork,

Invite me when you do the Pizza experiment because
A)  I like pizza.
B) I want to see Heinz's empty head implode. :netrage:

I'll be happy to shoot the video of that with the HFC while munching on a tasty piece of pepperoni and mushroom!

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

  • Brother Daniel
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Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1932
I'm learning that you (Heinz) are both stupider and more dishonest than I previously recognized.

Brother Daniel,

I never considered you slow but judging from this statement, it looks like you have some catching up to do! :grin:

Windgrins :grin:
What can I say?  I always try to assume the best of everyone.  :)

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1933

 I can only conclude that Heinz really doesn't understand how wheels work.

Or pretty much anything at all as far as I can tell.

The idea that the wheel can't turn faster than the speed that it rolls over the belt while "hovering" has amused me for a long time.  Somehow, it escapes him that it can actually turn at a faster speed if it is rolling up the belt.

I wonder what he attributes the speed up in the prop speed to as it goes upbelt since it is directly geared to the wheels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQt9YHBKXqA

I can't remember if it was him or Humber that came up with that insane idea originally.

Windgrins :grin:


Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

  • Brother Daniel
  • Global Moderator
  • predisposed to antagonism
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1934
And I claim that the cart on the treadmill will behave completely differently if there are > 3 boxes of pizza in the same room.  So hey tiny sporky ("Chief Scientist"), have you ever indulged your keen desire for scientific correctness and integrity, and taken a look at whether your cart will continue to advance on the treadmill if there are lots of pizza boxes in the room?  No?  I thought not!  And I do not wonder why; I know why . . . . you are scared shitless of what you will see . . . . wheels magically transforming from circular to square . . . and your fantasy world will implode along with Heinz's empty head.

Hey Spork,

Invite me when you do the Pizza experiment because
A)  I like pizza.
B) I want to see Heinz's empty head implode. :netrage:

I'll be happy to shoot the video of that with the HFC while munching on a tasty piece of pepperoni and mushroom!

Windgrins :grin:

I like mushrooms too!  And a bit of some stronger cheese (like feta) as well as the mozza.  Add some spinach and zucchini -- I know it sounds crazy, but it actually works really well.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1935

I'll be happy to shoot the video of that with the HFC while munching on a tasty piece of pepperoni and mushroom!

Windgrins :grin:

Do you ever make it out this way?  It'd be great to see you - even if you do put pepperoni on your pizza.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1936

I'll be happy to shoot the video of that with the HFC while munching on a tasty piece of pepperoni and mushroom!

Windgrins :grin:

Do you ever make it out this way?  It'd be great to see you - even if you do put pepperoni on your pizza.

Now that I'm retired, I may well be able to get out to see you next year.  Lots of traveling coming up.  A month in Barbados in Jan.
I've got my glider commercial checkride coming up in 2 weeks.  Keep your fingers crossed for me.

You'll be the first one to know if I can make it out there and we'll get together to collude on your next "fool the internet" evil plan :devil3: .

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1937
I want to introduce a new theory to rival Heinz's, or actually use it to go even deeper than he has. Maybe he was onto something, but he just missed a few important clues. In fact, the treadmill demonstration is not relying on simple vibration as Heinz suggests, no, it is much more devious but still more difficult to detect the true mechanism. In fact, the treadmill belt is acting as a Fluidized Bed. This became obvious to me only after seeing this video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4RA5I0FKs

This clearly shows how the cart can advance on the treadmill, just the way Heinz claims, but the missing detail which the HFR camera would show is seen at normal frame rates due to the action of the air on individual solid grains. I won't bother to go into the mathematical detail here, since you probably couldn't understand it anyway, but this has to be the clearest illustration yet of what Heinz has really discovered about the real properties of the belt motion and the interaction at the tire interface on the molecular level. It is now also obvious why the full scale tests were conducted on a dry lake bed rather than a sealed surface.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1938
Last day of finals for this semester. About six weeks off, so, time to start building.


  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1939
Best of luck
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1940
Last day of finals for this semester. About six weeks off, so, time to start building.

Looking forward to following your efforts, Tom. Good luck.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1941
Last day of finals for this semester. About six weeks off, so, time to start building.

Looking forward to following your efforts, Tom. Good luck.

Ditto, and especially looking forward to the high frame rate video.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1942
Heinz:
you have had at least seven years to prove your theory, yet still you sit on your ass and expect other people to do it for you.
Your theory- get off your lazy ass and do your own bit of research for once.
I'm not holding my breath, and I really hope Tom does take some high frame rate videos, just to see what pathetic excuses you come up with. :grin:

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1943
Tracking down parts has been quite frustrating.

Does anyone know which (if any) of these props are the right one. The site provides no detailed information as far as size 15x7.5 or whatever. Tower Hobby seems to no longer carry them either, if they do their search cant find it and their site navigation is awful.

http://stores.aeromicro.com/gws-slow-flyer/

Anyway I had to order from various UK shops for most things. Some only had 1 in stock and showed out of stock after I ordered, or were already out and I had to look elsewhere.

Here are some of what I've ordered so far:

https://www.modelhelicopters.co.uk/tail-gear-set-hawk.html

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311981483907?clk_rvr_id=1397840564490&rmvSB=true

I ordered this prop:

http://radioactivemodels.ie/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28_68_74_126&products_id=769

but not 100% sure it is the right one

Still shopping for wheels and carbon tube

bearings:
http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/96/5x13x4-Revolution-695-RSZ-bearings.html

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/56/5x11x4-Revolution-MR115-RSZ-bearings.html

  • Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 05:27:35 PM by Tom Booth

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1944
The prop looks right, 7.5 inch pitch.  Wheels should be about 3 inch diameter for a 1:1 tail gear.  I think you said you have a small lathe, which would let you make your own wheels from some flat material.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1945
The prop looks right, 7.5 inch pitch.  Wheels should be about 3 inch diameter for a 1:1 tail gear.  I think you said you have a small lathe, which would let you make your own wheels from some flat material.

Thanks.

For some reason, or.. who knows why, but in trying to order parts from several places, it seems that they will ship to almost anywhere in the world except the US. for props and I'm not sure what else but for three different companies when I get to the checkout there was no choice for United States in the drop down menu for shipping. So I was not able to place the order and had to try elsewhere. Rather strange and irritating.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1946
Hmmm... it looks like your gear-set is not 1:1.  That will have an impact on the prop-pitch and/or wheel size you want.  Let us know what the ratio is between the two gears, and which one is on the axle vs which is on the prop-shaft.

I'm surprised you're having to order anything overseas.  I'm pretty sure I could walk into Aeromicro and get all the parts needed.


Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1948
Hmmm... it looks like your gear-set is not 1:1.  That will have an impact on the prop-pitch and/or wheel size you want.  Let us know what the ratio is between the two gears, and which one is on the axle vs which is on the prop-shaft.

I'm surprised you're having to order anything overseas.  I'm pretty sure I could walk into Aeromicro and get all the parts needed.


If you could locate the right gear set online somewhere that would be helpful. What I ordered seems to be the same part # HI3075

I tried to order extra but they only had 1 left. If I could have ordered more I suppose that would solve the problem. Just take one from each set.

Is it the right gear set otherwise? I might be able to find another set somewhere else.
  • Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:37:46 PM by Tom Booth

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #1949