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Topic: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills (Read 1129 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • VoxRat
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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #50
I've been quoting evolutionists for years and everyone here has always screamed bloody murder  every time I did.
That's because you were quote mining.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #51
I'm simply pointing out that this thread title is a dishonest quote mine.
But you're wrong.
It is neither a quote mine mined quote, nor is it dishonest.
After all these years, you have not learned what either of those terms mean.




Lol
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #52
Dave, that section of Mike Pence's statement doesn't make it sound like he disagrees with the science when he actually does agree with it.

Its not like he's quoting doctors from 60 years ago, or someone who says that an occasional cigarette relieves their asthma symptoms, but that's science marches on, or if you look at the larger dataset we see a different pattern.

That would be a quotemine. But that isn't what he said is it?
Why do I bother?

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #53
I've been quoting evolutionists for years and everyone here has always screamed bloody murder  every time I did.

 Now the shoe is on the other foot and all of a sudden it's not a quite mine.

Classy
::)  poor david.
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #54
Which means that Henry Morris' book entitled "that their words may be used against them" and my follow on entitled "more useful quotes for creationists" aren't quite mine projects either.
Missing antecedent for "Which" noted.
So, no nothing contradicts the fact that Morris and you are prime examples of quote-miners.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #55
I see so now we are redefining the term "quote mine" from what it was over the past 10 years.
No.

A quote mine is the use of a quote of statement that directly undermines the meaning the author intended by grossly ignoring the context of the statement.

In this matter, Spence, supported by Big Tobacco in his political career (though I have to admit, they bought him rather cheaply, I mean, a few $K for some of those races?) clearly stated he does not believe smoking kills. He did so in an article intended to argue against government regulations regarding smoking and uses that statement as justification for his argument government shouldn't interfere. Despite the fact in the same article he admits smoking has a 33% death rate and a 10% lung cancer rate.

How would you view person who was politically supported by the Columbian Cartels (but only their distribution partners in the US as it's illegal to take campaign contributions) who clearly stated cocaine doesn't kill or otherwise fuck people up (despite admitting in that same article it does result in a death rate from all causes of about 1% or so) so we should disband the DEA and eliminate all federal and state laws regarding cocaine? Would you consider someone else who quoted that statement in a rebuttal of that article or as an example of that author's credibility as quote mining?

How about a person who clearly stated murder should be decriminalized because it doesn't kill people? That the government shouldn't have laws prohibiting murder? Because think of all the time and money and the massively intrusive government bureaucracies dedicated to identifying, apprehending, prosecuting and executing the sentences of murderers. I mean, if people just armed themselves or otherwise prepared against being murdered, what's the worry? Shouldn't piss off others such they want to murder you in the first place. And just think, cops would have much more time to give out speeding and parking tickets, which actually generate income!

What a bluffoon.

Are we there yet?

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #56
I see so now we are redefining the term "quote mine" from what it was over the past 10 years.
No we are not.
Where did you get that idea?  :dunno:
From his basic misunderstanding of what a quote mine is.
And his need to defend his basic pathological dishonesty.
And his need to defend his heroes de jour.
Are we there yet?

  • fredbear
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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #57
Dave, does truth matter to you at all, even a tiny little bit? I guess there's a reason someone formulated the afdave laws in the first place. This looks like a classic example of the fifth:

Afdave's Fifth Law: The truth of all previously established facts and conclusions are subject to their being convenient to the argument I am presently making.
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #58
LOL. Time for a reality check! Smoking doesn't kill (except for all the people it does)!

And of course Dishonest Dave, who quote mines all the time, is here to scream bloody murder about quote mining when he misidentifies it as being used against one of his chosen heroes. Dave, are you capable of holding an opinion that wasn't placed in your head by your masters?

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #59
Dave, does truth matter to you at all, even a tiny little bit? I guess there's a reason someone formulated the afdave laws in the first place. This looks like a classic example of the fifth:

Afdave's Fifth Law: The truth of all previously established facts and conclusions are subject to their being convenient to the argument I am presently making.
Yes, truth matters to me a lot.  More than to most people here, apparently.  My page entitled "more useful quotes for creationists" actually quotes evolutionists ...

in context ...

unlike Voxrat's dishonest quote mine of Mike Pence.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #60
Dave, does truth matter to you at all, even a tiny little bit? I guess there's a reason someone formulated the afdave laws in the first place. This looks like a classic example of the fifth:

Afdave's Fifth Law: The truth of all previously established facts and conclusions are subject to their being convenient to the argument I am presently making.
Yes, truth matters to me a lot.  More than to most people here, apparently.  My page entitled "more useful quotes for creationists" actually quotes evolutionists ...

in context ...
Bull. Shit.

Quote
unlike Voxrat's dishonest quote mine of Mike Pence.
My quote did not misrepresent him. It did not change the meaning of what he said. Moreover, I gave the link to the entire article. You can't get more context than that.

And, by the way, I did not make up the thread title. It was taken from the title of the "Business Insider" article I linked to.
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 08:24:50 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #61
With his thread title, Voxrat is dishonestly representing what the man says in this article.  Yes, he wrote those exact words.  But context is everything and if you actually read the context, you find out that Pence's point is:  "fighting Big Tobacco" in this way would enlarge government by creating 17 new bureaucracies - a bad thing.
Fuck you, Hawkins.
Fuck you with a splintery, broken, tetanus-infested broomstick.
Smoking does kill. Period.
Your guy just said it doesn't.

Hillary supporters are scary.  Their faces turn red with rage and they shoot off their mouths like this.
Well, to be fair, you often have that effect on most people.

But hey, I'm not a Hillary supporter, so I hope you're not scared of me as you are of VoxRat.

Here's what I asked:
Quote
Do you really think that it's OK to tell a BLATANT and DANGEROUS lie like "smoking doesn't kill", as long as it serves the noble "point" you are making? About fighting Bad Bureaucracy?
I'm interested in your response.

I just had a guy on Facebook tell me I should end my own life.
Yeah, that' how you can often tell the difference between Hillary and Donald supporters. The first ones often tell you to kill yourself, the others often ensure you that they'll do the job for you.

But I digress.


I'm not making any comment about whether or not "smoking kills" ... I think it does.
So you agree that Pence was full of shit back then. Good.

I'm simply pointing out that this thread title is a dishonest quote mine.
Um, that does not follow, dave.

But we can discuss your continuous inability to comprehend what "quote mining" entails later. Can you please respond to the bold above?



Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #62
I see so now we are redefining the term "quote mine" from what it was over the past 10 years.
Um, no?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #63
Dave, does truth matter to you at all, even a tiny little bit? I guess there's a reason someone formulated the afdave laws in the first place. This looks like a classic example of the fifth:

Afdave's Fifth Law: The truth of all previously established facts and conclusions are subject to their being convenient to the argument I am presently making.
Yes, truth matters to me a lot.  More than to most people here, apparently.  My page entitled "more useful quotes for creationists" actually quotes evolutionists ...

in context ...

unlike Voxrat's dishonest quote mine of Mike Pence.
How does VoxRat quote Pence OUT of context?

Is there anything IN context, that shows that Pence does NOT think smoking doesn't kill?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #64
How does VoxRat quote Pence OUT of context?

Is there anything IN context, that shows that Pence does NOT think smoking doesn't kill?
Well the bit I quoted:
Quote
"Time for a quick reality check," Pence wrote. "Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn't kill. In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer."
... despite directly stating that "smoking doesn't kill" seems to suggest that Pence believes smoking does kill (but not enough to really matter? :dunno:  a mere one out of three?  And does cause cancer (but not enough to really matter?  :dunno:  a mere one out of ten? ).    It was a bizarre thing to write.  The main takeaway seems to be that he was warning that the predicted increase in government bureaucracy associated with the tobacco settlement (for which I've seen no evidence) and intrusion into citizens lives was a much bigger deal than a mere 33% of smokers dying.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #65
With his thread title, Voxrat is dishonestly representing what the man says in this article.  Yes, he wrote those exact words.  But context is everything and if you actually read the context, you find out that Pence's point is:  "fighting Big Tobacco" in this way would enlarge government by creating 17 new bureaucracies - a bad thing.
Fuck you, Hawkins.
Fuck you with a splintery, broken, tetanus-infested broomstick.
Smoking does kill. Period.
Your guy just said it doesn't.

Hillary supporters are scary.  Their faces turn red with rage and they shoot off their mouths like this.  I just had a guy on Facebook tell me I should end my own life. 
I suspect a large part of that, if it's true, was that they couldn't handle dealing with an ignorant lying egomaniacal asshole.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #66
Quote
Hillary supporters are scary.  Their faces turn red with rage and they shoot off their mouths like this.  I just had a guy on Facebook tell me I should end my own life. 
Even if we assume that the a*****e who posted that was being truthful (an unwarranted assumption, but let's be generous for a moment), that some nameless supporter of Hilary Clinton (keeping in mind that most American voters supported Hillary Clinton) suggested that some rude jerk on the internet should take their own life is no more disturbing that finding that a named Donald Trump supporter is a neo-nazi who has encouraged people to encourage supporters of Hilary Clinton to kill themselves Get some of them to kill themselves': Popular neo-Nazi site urges readers to troll liberals into suicide.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Peez

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #67
How does VoxRat quote Pence OUT of context?

Is there anything IN context, that shows that Pence does NOT think smoking doesn't kill?
Well the bit I quoted:
Quote
"Time for a quick reality check," Pence wrote. "Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn't kill. In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer."
... despite directly stating that "smoking doesn't kill" seems to suggest that Pence believes smoking does kill (but not enough to really matter? :dunno:  a mere one out of three?  And does cause cancer (but not enough to really matter?  :dunno:  a mere one out of ten? ).    It was a bizarre thing to write.  The main takeaway seems to be that he was warning that the predicted increase in government bureaucracy associated with the tobacco settlement (for which I've seen no evidence) and intrusion into citizens lives was a much bigger deal than a mere 33% of smokers dying.

Perhaps Dave would have been happier if your thread title had been:
Quote from: VoxRat in a nearby alternative reality
Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills (well, only 1 in 3)


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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #68
With his thread title, Voxrat is dishonestly representing what the man says in this article.  Yes, he wrote those exact words.  But context is everything and if you actually read the context, you find out that Pence's point is:  "fighting Big Tobacco" in this way would enlarge government by creating 17 new bureaucracies - a bad thing.
Fuck you, Hawkins.
Fuck you with a splintery, broken, tetanus-infested broomstick.
Smoking does kill. Period.
Your guy just said it doesn't.

Hillary supporters are scary.  Their faces turn red with rage and they shoot off their mouths like this.
Well, to be fair, you often have that effect on most people.

But hey, I'm not a Hillary supporter, so I hope you're not scared of me as you are of VoxRat.

Here's what I asked:
Quote
Do you really think that it's OK to tell a BLATANT and DANGEROUS lie like "smoking doesn't kill", as long as it serves the noble "point" you are making? About fighting Bad Bureaucracy?
I'm interested in your response.

I just had a guy on Facebook tell me I should end my own life.
Yeah, that' how you can often tell the difference between Hillary and Donald supporters. The first ones often tell you to kill yourself, the others often ensure you that they'll do the job for you.

But I digress.


I'm not making any comment about whether or not "smoking kills" ... I think it does.
So you agree that Pence was full of shit back then. Good.

I'm simply pointing out that this thread title is a dishonest quote mine.
Um, that does not follow, dave.

But we can discuss your continuous inability to comprehend what "quote mining" entails later. Can you please respond to the bold above?




Hi dave.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #69
^^^^^^
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #70
Do you really think that it's OK to tell a BLATANT and DANGEROUS lie like "smoking doesn't kill", as long as it serves the noble "point" you are making? About fighting Bad Bureaucracy?

It's worth noting that Pence's state, Indiana, is tied* (at least as of 2014) for 6th highest rate of smoking.
source

* with Missouri
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #71
Dave.

Come on.

This is pathetic.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #72
Dave.

Come on.

This is pathetic Dave.
FIFY
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #73
Dave, does truth matter to you at all, even a tiny little bit? I guess there's a reason someone formulated the afdave laws in the first place. This looks like a classic example of the fifth:

Afdave's Fifth Law: The truth of all previously established facts and conclusions are subject to their being convenient to the argument I am presently making.
Yes, truth matters to me a lot.  More than to most people here, apparently.  My page entitled "more useful quotes for creationists" actually quotes evolutionists ...

in context ...

unlike Voxrat's dishonest quote mine of Mike Pence.
Ok, quote mines aside, what about Trump's unambiguous lies? Do they bother you at all?

Please try not to play dumb.
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Mike Pence said he doesn't believe that smoking kills
Reply #74
I don't know of any yet, but if I was aware of one, then yeah ... that's a bad thing.