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  • ksen
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Holographic Universe
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

Quote
A UK, Canadian and Italian study has provided what researchers believe is the first observational evidence that our universe could be a vast and complex hologram.

Theoretical physicists and astrophysicists, investigating irregularities in the cosmic microwave background (the 'afterglow' of the Big Bang), have found there is substantial evidence supporting a holographic explanation of the universe - in fact, as much as there is for the traditional explanation of these irregularities using the theory of cosmic inflation.

The researchers, from the University of Southampton (UK), University of Waterloo (Canada), Perimeter Institute (Canada), INFN, Lecce (Italy) and the University of Salento (Italy), have published findings in the journal Physical Review Letters.

What's this all about?

eta: It bugs me that the site can take the time to write out where to locate the findings but can't be bothered to provide a link to the findings.  Don't they know how to internet?

eta2: I miss Lauren :sadcheer:

  • SkepticTank
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #1
Jerome needs to read this.

  • Faid
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #2
Get ready for a bunch of philosophical extrapolations of the "Eternity is real" type.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #3
I read an article by Penrose about his once which I've since searched for and been unable to find so maybe it wasn't Penrose but if not then it was someone who was clearly an authority on the math and physics involved. Anyway, the article basically said that there might be observations that could distinguish between a holographic universe and a relativity/ 4d universe but that at present, what those observations might be were anybody's guess.

ETA: The article's point, though, was that so far it isn't a predictive theory.
  • Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 03:34:11 PM by Testy Calibrate
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  • ksen
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #4
I bet if Dave started this thread there'd be 300 replies by now. :colbert:

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #5
ETA: The article's point, though, was that so far it isn't a predictive theory.

And by "it" you mean the holographic universe?

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #6
ETA: The article's point, though, was that so far it isn't a predictive theory.

And by "it" you mean the holographic universe?
yes. Here's the thing about that though. Models and reality aren't the same thing. Seems obvious but it's commonly confused in popular imagination as well as by scientists themselves. It may be that a holographic model eventually turns out to predict better than the current relativistic models. The jury is definitely still out on what the future may bring and the holographic model does seem to make some interesting suggestions. But calling it a "holographic universe implies that the analogy between the holograph and the universe is more than an analogy. Just like with GR, the universe is still just the universe. The models we use do not define that universe, they predict it's motion. GR doesn't tell us anything about the "real" universe other than what it's motion is likely to be. The 5 fundamental forces are descriptions of observable relationships. They are not the same thing as those relationships. Whatever model we use has value only insofar as it makes better predictions regarding states of affairs. That model is not and cannot be the "true" model because there is always another way to model something that will produce the same predictions.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Monad
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #7
Isn't this some way of sneaking in god by the back door, if there's a hologram who is the projector?

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #8
not that I am aware of. Anyway, that's just the cosmological argument. It's available to any model.
  • Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 02:27:14 PM by Testy Calibrate
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Monad
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #9
OK but I really don't get this concept, what's it a projection of? It just seems like scientists trying to explain the universe by reducing it to a human tech analogy which seems such an anthropocentric and blinkered way of thinking.

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #10
OK but I really don't get this concept, what's it a projection of? It just seems like scientists trying to explain the universe by reducing it to a human tech analogy which seems such an anthropocentric and blinkered way of thinking.
It could be predictive. The thing is, physics doesn't have a consistent way to describe time across all models and the HU could provide that.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • nesb
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #11
My understanding of the whole HU thing, is it's just about whether or not the total information in the universe could be contained 2-dimensionally on its "surface". I also thought there was a way to test it, to some extent, having to do with how fuzzy things get on small scales--something like that.

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #12
The "hologram" notion is more thinking of 2d things that look 3D, as opposed to a Star Wars style hologram.

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #13
the relevance of that is that it would change our notion of time.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #14
The "hologram" notion is more thinking of 2d things that look 3D, as opposed to a Star Wars style hologram.

I thought the whole point of much modern physics was the idea that things actually have more dimensions than 3 not less and that what we actually perceive is just their 3D aspect? To me that makes more sense as it could help explain things like entanglement (it helps me understand it anyway).

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #15
The holographic universe provides a very tidy explanation for entanglement. That's one of it's high points even. However, it doesn't offer any way to predict wave function collapse at all.

I am now at the end of the sound bites that I have collected on the matter. Maybe JB will show up and say something actually intelligent on the matter.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #16
The "hologram" notion is more thinking of 2d things that look 3D, as opposed to a Star Wars style hologram.

I thought the whole point of much modern physics was the idea that things actually have more dimensions than 3 not less and that what we actually perceive is just their 3D aspect? To me that makes more sense as it could help explain things like entanglement (it helps me understand it anyway).

Lol. I misread that as:
"To me that makes more sense as it could help explain things like my apartment"

And I thought, yep. I understand. :D
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #18
The "hologram" notion is more thinking of 2d things that look 3D, as opposed to a Star Wars style hologram.

I thought the whole point of much modern physics was the idea that things actually have more dimensions than 3 not less and that what we actually perceive is just their 3D aspect? To me that makes more sense as it could help explain things like entanglement (it helps me understand it anyway).

I don't think more than 3 spatial dimensions has ever been confirmed. It's definitely something that's been played around w/ in theory, though.

  • Faid
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #19
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.redbubble.com/people/theroyalsass/works/24155595-holographic-trump-logo?p=sticker
Jesus that thing hurts my eyes. And not because it says "Trump" (ok maybe a little because of that )
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.