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Messages - uncool

1
It's easy to only have maintenance-free things. Just get rid of anything you have that requires maintenance!
Yup ... that's the idea.
And replace it with a new one.

So sustainable. So efficient.
2
45th president.
3
So which of you donated to the NRA for this spectacular ad?

4
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

Yeah. I just find some parts of Dave's stupidity...easy to translate. His choice to use island rather than jail was because the standard fantasy of forced isolation is an island; he didn't think it through the details. As such, I personally don't find rehashing his inability to put together a cohesive world from extremely common tropes that interesting. More interesting to me is understanding why - even in a case as close to matching what he actually wants - he thinks this thought experiment will prove anything.
I think it will demonstrate the superiority of an animal foods based system. But if I'm wrong ... Ok. I'm wrong several times a day. It's part of science.
Bullshit. Nothing about animal based systems vs plant based systems here:
Say whatever you want. It won't change the fact that I'm doing good science. Science which is much more useful than the kind you do. You might say that I'm democratizing science. People like you are actually enemies of science because you restrict it to such a narrow definition that only a few Elite scientists with fancy Science degrees can do science. And of course that's a lie because anyone can do science. Even kindergarteners. And they should. You are just like the papist clergy of Martin Luther's day who  said that the common people were too stupid to read the Bible in their own language.

Wow.  You are one fucking confused individual.  You don't understand experimental controls, you don't even know how to measure for comparison, you seem to think science is just a common sense confirmation of what you already believe to be true.  Grow up, man.  Elementary school children here would see through your charade.
Go f*** yourself.

What would be really fun is if Donald Trump was as bad as you people say he is and he issued a dictatorial order that all posters at talk rational were immediately exiled to one of two islands for the next five years ... Dave Hawkins would be the governor of one... And one of you people - Pingu for example - would be the governor at the other one.  Each of you  would be allowed to pick who's Island you want to live on and of course you would be initially stocked with whatever livestock and garden seeds and tools and so forth that you would need. But you only get one chance to pick and you only get one chance to buy supplies. Then you are stuck there for 5 years.  Who would you pick?

This post is about who, not what.
5
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.

My point was the larger one, that the very idea that we should have assumed that when he said "an island" he meant "something like Missouri" because of course he did, is symptomatic of his ignorance and dismissal of really important differences between climates and biome.

Of course when he said "an island" we didn't think "like Missouri". Anyone with half an ounce of ecological sense would immediately ask "how large?  what latititude? what longitude?"  The whole reason his thought experiment is so absurd is that the answers depends on what, in another context, he would call DETAILS.

So if he means an area of Missouri with a barbed wired fence and security guards around it, then he should say so.  And he should also say whether, for example, it includes a river.

Again DETAILS. 

The world is a WHOLE, which is why it is so utterly ludicrous to be discussing what he calls "holistic" solutions to a tiny unspecified part.

Yeah. I just find some parts of Dave's stupidity...easy to translate. His choice to use island rather than jail was because the standard fantasy of forced isolation is an island; he didn't think it through the details. As such, I personally don't find rehashing his inability to put together a cohesive world from extremely common tropes that interesting. More interesting to me is understanding why - even in a case as close to matching what he actually wants - he thinks this thought experiment will prove anything.
6
No uncool... the assumptions have to be grounded in reality.

Can't invoke magic.

Why on earth not?  You do.
Not in the area of food production I don't.
No unexpected plagues. That's magic. Never a difficult pregnancy or labor. That's magic.
7
No uncool... the assumptions have to be grounded in reality.

Can't invoke magic.
You missed my point, which I spelled out for you in the next sentence. Please try reading.
8
Dave, you said Pingu would have access to the data that you'd be "judging" us against. So the "contest", if we accepted your idea, would be about which of you can read the data better.

And we've seen that before. We've seen it enough times that we don't need to see the specific analysis she would do to know that she would do a job that is at least comparable, and most likely superior to yours. We also know that you wouldn't accept that, and would bluff and bluster your way through. Which leaves only the "Who would we personally prefer to be with" question.
9
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Dave only chose islands to make sure "we" couldn't leave. So pretend he said we were walled into a small area of Missouri.

Doesn't change the "it depends" part, but the "no island like" should be relatively irrelevant.
10
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.
And you've already said Pingu would have access to them. Which means she would take them into account, and (given her track record) would put them to good use.

What you're asking, since we'd never actually do this experiment, is which of you could read the data better. And the answer is rather clearly Pingu.
Quote
I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would be rather useless for making comparisons, as simulations bake in assumptions that may change those comparisons easily. It would be good only to say "These two plans are pretty close in output".
11
Hogwash. We have plenty of information with which we could make informed decisions.

I really do want to create a simulation sometime. That would be freaking awesome.
It would get bogged down in discussions about what it is even supposed to simulate and that it's not doing that.
I cannot see this going anywhere but nowhere.
Nah. Wouldn't be that hard.  The goal would be to test the "Pingu Food Production System" vs. the "Dave Food Production Systrm" ... mainly how many annual food calories could be produced vs. Number of man hours to produce it.

You just aren't getting this "depends on what the island is" thing, are you?

And there is no "island" that is "like Missouri" because Missouri, when I last looked was in the middle of a fucking great continent.
Use your imagination. You can do it!!
Great. I imagine there's a lamp 5 feet under a location we'd dig and you won't, that grants our wish and takes us off the island.

By saying "use your imagination", you make the comparison worthless, because either person could "imagine" anything that makes their method more effective, or hinders the other person.
12
Oh, now my posts are visible again?
Fun fact, Dave:

I've written posts, here and on the archived site, criticizing mainstream coverage for being utter shit. I've done so repeatedly. So no, I'm not just "covering for my team" here. I explicitly said that they failed. i just also pointed out that it's a common failure everywhere.

Now, are you going to continue ignoring questions about your support for gatewaypundit? Or will you cover for your team by never checking your own side?
What did "my own side" say that was wrong?
Now (i.e. in reference to the Flynn story as it spread over the past few days)? Or ever?
13
The devil - they say - is in the details.
Jesus Christ, Dave, are you not getting that this is a rejection of your premise that this thought experiment is going to do anything?

If we took the thought experiment seriously and came up with a serious plan, there would be no way for us here now to evaluate which plan would be better. You would likely bluff and bluster, certain that your plan was better, with no data that would demonstrate it, because this is a thought experiment. We would get nowhere, having learned nothing.

So instead, we reject the premise that the thought experiment is about the details of the plans. We instead talk about whom we trust to implement a good plan well, because that's the only difference we'd be able to determine beforehand. And we don't trust you at all - either on finding a good plan, or on implementing it.
14
Speaking of which, and speaking of attention to detail:

Only two people I could find explicitly said they would choose Pingu.
Say whatever you want. It won't change the fact that I'm doing good science. Science which is much more useful than the kind you do. You might say that I'm democratizing science. People like you are actually enemies of science because you restrict it to such a narrow definition that only a few Elite scientists with fancy Science degrees can do science. And of course that's a lie because anyone can do science. Even kindergarteners. And they should. You are just like the papist clergy of Martin Luther's day who  said that the common people were too stupid to read the Bible in their own language.

Wow.  You are one fucking confused individual.  You don't understand experimental controls, you don't even know how to measure for comparison, you seem to think science is just a common sense confirmation of what you already believe to be true.  Grow up, man.  Elementary school children here would see through your charade.

What would be really fun is if Donald Trump was as bad as you people say he is and he issued a dictatorial order that all posters at talk rational were immediately exiled to one of two islands for the next five years ... Dave Hawkins would be the governor of one... And one of you people - Pingu for example - would be the governor at the other one.  Each of you  would be allowed to pick who's Island you want to live on and of course you would be initially stocked with whatever livestock and garden seeds and tools and so forth that you would need. But you only get one chance to pick and you only get one chance to buy supplies. Then you are stuck there for 5 years.  Who would you pick?

Jesus - Pingu, without a fucking doubt.  There's more than enough reason to avoid actual personal contact with you Dave, you're bloated narcissism and abject ignorance are just the surface issues.  You also have a magniloquent ego and are a gargantuan asshole, especially to women. 

I'll take Pingu, in a millisecond.  She is patient, thoughtful, kind, and willing to work collaboratively.  She has relevant knowledge, and probably would excel as a manager, if her posting behaviour is any guide.  You, on the other hand, would alienate any and all people the moment your "wisdom" is questioned.

Was this a serious inquiry?

No. It wasn't.  Just braggadocious Dave, blowing his own horn, in a scenario invented in his fantastical mind.  Much like your HMG experiment.

Say whatever you want. It won't change the fact that I'm doing good science. Science which is much more useful than the kind you do. You might say that I'm democratizing science. People like you are actually enemies of science because you restrict it to such a narrow definition that only a few Elite scientists with fancy Science degrees can do science. And of course that's a lie because anyone can do science. Even kindergarteners. And they should. You are just like the papist clergy of Martin Luther's day who  said that the common people were too stupid to read the Bible in their own language.

Wow.  You are one fucking confused individual.  You don't understand experimental controls, you don't even know how to measure for comparison, you seem to think science is just a common sense confirmation of what you already believe to be true.  Grow up, man.  Elementary school children here would see through your charade.
Go f*** yourself.

What would be really fun is if Donald Trump was as bad as you people say he is and he issued a dictatorial order that all posters at talk rational were immediately exiled to one of two islands for the next five years ... Dave Hawkins would be the governor of one... And one of you people - Pingu for example - would be the governor at the other one.  Each of you  would be allowed to pick who's Island you want to live on and of course you would be initially stocked with whatever livestock and garden seeds and tools and so forth that you would need. But you only get one chance to pick and you only get one chance to buy supplies. Then you are stuck there for 5 years.  Who would you pick?
Pingu. No question. She's not an asshole and I really don't need some leader to work out what needs to be done, just someone to organize the efforts. A decider. We do it this or we do that. We do this this way or we do this that way. Somewhere along the line someone has to be the executive, the one who decides what to do. The only exception to that is a society wherein consensus and rational evaluation and a lack of ego suffering from tumescent narcissism are universal values and characteristics. That's pretty hard to come by but I'd give the Darwin Club good odds of having them and succeeding. At least better than you. For one thing, you are  lazy.

Well, there is one scenario where I get in my initial supplies a fully equipped and stocked armored flying car with a 37mm autocannon, a flame thrower and a shotgun with salt rounds, with resupplies as needed for the next 5 years and I come after you and chase you all over for the next five years. Then I'd pick your island.

Of course, the armored flying car has a great mini-bar in the cockpit, one that resupplies automatically. Oh, and Hunter Thompson as my co-pilot. Except he (Thompson) is surgically and electronically and how ever else is necessary rendered to be incapable of causing me harm, he can do whatever he likes to anyone or anything else (armored flying car and anything I claim to own excepted). Even when he's clearly not in the driver's seat, so to speak.

And both went into quite a bit of detail why. They were just details that Dave didn't like.
15
Fun fact, Dave:

I've written posts, here and on the archived site, criticizing mainstream coverage for being utter shit. I've done so repeatedly. So no, I'm not just "covering for my team" here. I explicitly said that they failed. i just also pointed out that it's a common failure everywhere.

Now, are you going to continue ignoring questions about your support for gatewaypundit? Or will you cover for your team by never checking your own side?
What did "my own side" say that was wrong?
Now (i.e. in reference to the Flynn story as it spread over the past few days)? Or ever?
16
Fun fact, Dave:

I've written posts, here and on the archived site, criticizing mainstream coverage for being utter shit. I've done so repeatedly. So no, I'm not just "covering for my team" here. I explicitly said that they failed. i just also pointed out that it's a common failure everywhere.

Now, are you going to continue ignoring questions about your support for gatewaypundit? Or will you cover for your team by never checking your own side?
17
Dave, did you notice that the MJ article didn't explicitly link to the Federalist article, and likely wasn't talking about them directly?

The Federalist isn't usually considered full "nutball", if I remembers correctly. Strongly biased to the point that it compromises their ability to fact-check even in news pieces, if I remember them right, but nowhere near, say, infowars or world net daily.

As such, it is unlikely that MJ was referencing them directly. It's more likely to have been a reference to claims people made based on the article - many of which misunderstood it. The Federalist article is somewhat restrained (although even then, it extrapolates too far with claiming that a motion to withdraw the plea is likely; such a motion would expose Flynn to risk that he likely would not want to face; that risk is why he pled guilty in the first place).

Mother Jones should have made explicit what it was referencing, by at least linking a couple instances of claims being made. Failing to do so is a common failure of journalism sites -left, right, mainstream and nutball alike.
18
If the stuff they say ends up being true then I'll know they are good sites. If the stuff they say ends up being false, then I will know they are bad sites. Not rocket science here.
So Dave, what are your thoughts on GatewayPundit?
Dave?
I guess Dave doesn't think much of GatewayPundit.
19
And Milo's withdrawing from his lawsuit.

https://apnews.com/amp/5da1b55b96ba47b88e77c405bf45b16e

Pretty plainly pure show, given the pro se stunt to get around the "for attorney's eyes only" stuff.
20
Relevant to this thread:

We are getting damn close to eradicating the second human disease ever. There were a total of 39 recorded cases of polio last year.

39. Down from hundreds of thousands per year as recently as 1980.
Update note:

Last year lost ground; total of 117 cases. Wild type still seems to be going down (22 from 37), but Syria and Congo had large outbreaks of vaccine-derived polio with paralysis.
21
If the stuff they say ends up being true then I'll know they are good sites. If the stuff they say ends up being false, then I will know they are bad sites. Not rocket science here.
So Dave, what are your thoughts on GatewayPundit?
Dave?
23
Dave,

Are you seeing this woman's success as a model or as inspiration?
24

Bluffy, your statements above indicate you believe there is no substantive difference in climate and/or soils between somewhere in New York and southern Guyana. Is that what you believe?
No, they do not indicate that.

Learn to read.

Yes, they do. Perhaps you should clarify your position.
Do you believe there is no substantive difference in climate and/or soils between somewhere in New York and southern Guyana? Is that what you believe? Or not. Please answer narrowly.
Of course I don't believe that.  Stupid question. 


Then you can't compare them as far as how your scheme works to generalize.
Sure you can. 

Again, the 3 basic principles work anywhere in the world where there are ...

1) Perennial grasses
2) Grazing herbivores

Goodness. This is flat out retarded. You were talking about a record crop yield in New York as a potential in Guyana.
If you would get off your "I'm smart and Dave is dumb" high horse ... you might actually learn something interesting.

First, we don't call grasses "crops."  Second, you should read "Grass Productivity" by Professor Andre Voisin ... he's the grandaddy of HMG ... Allan Savory learned this stuff from him initially.  Third, if you would study this stuff you would realize that grass productivity in MANY PLACES all over the world (probably all) can be massively increased from the average.

Amazing.  And from the highest yield you know of,  in New York, you are able to divine that you can get the same in Guyana because yields can be increased anywhere. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
As a note, unless I missed something, he's only looking to match half that.