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Topic: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War? (Read 8739 times) previous topic - next topic

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Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1
Point #1:  Lincoln made it clear in his first inaugural address that he did not intend to interfere with Southern states rights to own slaves. 
Quote
Slavery: Lincoln stated emphatically that he had "...no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." ...

Protection of slavery: Lincoln explicitly stated that he had no objection to the proposed Corwin Amendment to the Constitution, which had already been approved by both houses of the United States Congress. This amendment would have formally protected slavery in those states in which it already existed, and assured to each state the right to establish or repudiate it. Lincoln indicated that he thought that this right was already protected in the original Constitution, and thus that the Corwin Amendment merely reiterated what it already contained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln%27s_first_inaugural_address

  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #2
Did not read.
Kill all white people.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #3
Dave Hawkins: Champion of the Pedophile, Protector of the Nazi and Defender of the Slave States.

Way to go! 

  • ToThePoint
  • search & destroy
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #4
Did not read.
Kill all white people.

I just read the date of the debate:  7-7-2013

and the results:
a grand total of 2 votes were submitted and debator TheYummyCod was declared the winner of those 2 votes.



"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #5
My dog this is fucking retarded. ::)
Truth is out of style

  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #6
Did not read.
Kill all white people.

I just read the date of the debate:  7-7-2013

and the results:
a grand total of 2 votes were submitted and debator TheYummyCod was declared the winner of those 2 votes.

What yon heathen calling hisself Hawkins fails to understand is that white people are the spawn of Nephilim and the sons of Nod. Dave and his race is the product of alien/fallen angel gene tampering with the swarthy easterlings of the Caucuses. The whole perverted strain that is the white man is a weaponized form of memetic soul-theft, originally engineered to steal the sacred island of the People of Dana, the very last refuge of the untainted. The Tuatha Dé Danann had no defense against the cold steal of the Indo-Europeans, slang for their corrupting seed and musky virility. Even Dave's own creation myth documents the vulgar origin of his own heathen ilk.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #7
Hate to break it to you, but the Irish Celts were Indo-European, which means their legends were too.
Truth is out of style

  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #8
Hate to break it to you, but the Irish Celts were Indo-European, which means their legends were too.

You fool. R.E.Howard documented the fall of the Picts long before you suckled at your mother's well chewed teets.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #9
I'd be surprised if someone hadn't. I wouldn't expect the first documentation on the Picts to wait for the 1960's.

But the Picts weren't Irish Celts anyway (although they were still Indo-European).
Truth is out of style

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #10
Anyway, this thing about Dave defending the Confederacy is funny. He obviously knows fuck all about the subject.
Truth is out of style

  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #11
I'd be surprised if someone hadn't. I wouldn't expect the first documentation on the Picts to wait for the 1960's.

But the Picts weren't Irish Celts anyway (although they were still Indo-European).

The true undiluted Picts had hid themselves from the corrupting seed of the white man for a very long time, often under ground. You would know this were you better read.  See the stories of Bran Mak Morn for details, you uncultured heathen. You speak in ignorance, but that can almost be forgiven. The best historian of these events put a bullet in his skull on June 11, 1936 upon learning of his "mother's" death. He had discovered the truth. Better to willingly extinguish the flame than have it co-opted by the perversions and memetic soul-theft of the pseudo-caucasiods.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #12
Good jumping off point found here ... http://www.debate.org/debates/Slavery-was-not-the-Primary-Cause-of-the-Civil-War/1/
Even better jumping off point here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Quote
The Cornerstone Speech, also known as the Cornerstone Address, was an oration delivered by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861.

Delivered extemporaneously a few weeks before the Confederacy would start the American Civil War by firing on the U.S. Army at Fort Sumter, Stephens' speech applauded white supremacy, defended the enslavement of Africans and African Americans, explained the fundamental differences between the constitutions of the Confederacy and that of the United States, enumerated contrasts between U.S. and Confederate ideologies and beliefs, and laid out the Confederacy's causes for declaring secession.
Quote from: The actual speech, Stephens' own words
Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
Truth is out of style

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #13
Anyway, this thing about Dave defending the Confederacy is funny. He obviously knows fuck all about the subject.

Like that's ever stopped him before.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #14
True. It's almost a prerequisite.
Truth is out of style

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #15
Good jumping off point found here ... http://www.debate.org/debates/Slavery-was-not-the-Primary-Cause-of-the-Civil-War/1/
No, dave. A link to an online debate is not "good jumping off point". And this proves it:
Quote
If the reason for secession was Slavery, then there would be no reason to secede, because Lincoln wasn't planning to abolish slavery anyways.
:facepalm:

Come on dave. That cornerstone argument is absurd if all the facts are laid out. Assuming that guy's a US ctizen, shouldn't he have learned all that in school?

Unless, of course, he's deliberately lying by omission.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #16
Is there any reason to think that Hawkins's grasp of what Stalin or Churchill were all about is any less ignorant than his grasp of the American civil war?
Or any other aspect of world history, come to that.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #17
Notice the date of Lincoln's inauguration ... March 4, 1861 ... Lincoln made it very clear he would not try to stop slavery. Does anyone here question this?  Then A BIT OVER A MONTH LATER ... April 12, 1861 ... Confederates bombarded Ft. Sumter.  Surely you will not try to tell me that the Confederates heard the speech, concluded that they were going to lose their slaves, and started bombing?  Surely you will not take that position?  Will you?

Notice also this paragraph in the Wiki article on Lincoln's inaugural address ... "Use of force: Lincoln promised that there would be no use of force against the South, unless it proved necessary for him to fulfill his obligation to "hold, occupy, and possess the property and places" belonging to the federal government, and to collect legal duties and imposts. However, if the South chose to actively take up arms against the Government, their insurrection would meet a firm and forceful response."

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #18
Notice the date of Lincoln's inauguration ... March 4, 1861 ... Lincoln made it very clear he would not try to stop slavery. Does anyone here question this?
Sigh. No, dave. In fact, it probably was not the first time Lincoln (or the Republican party) had  said that.
Quote
Then A BIT OVER A MONTH LATER ... April 12, 1861 ... Confederates bombarded Ft. Sumter.  Surely you will not try to tell me that the Confederates heard the speech, concluded that they were going to lose their slaves, and started bombing?  Surely you will not take that position?  Will you?
:facepalm:

No dave. We won't. I don't think anyone will.

Are you under the impression that that speech was the ONE AND ONLY time slavery was discussed? And ONLY in the context of abolishing it from the states that practiced it?

have you ever studied your own nation's history?

Quote
Notice also this paragraph in the Wiki article on Lincoln's inaugural address ... "Use of force: Lincoln promised that there would be no use of force against the South, unless it proved necessary for him to fulfill his obligation to "hold, occupy, and possess the property and places" belonging to the federal government, and to collect legal duties and imposts. However, if the South chose to actively take up arms against the Government, their insurrection would meet a firm and forceful response."
Uh-huh.

You DO know the secession had already occured, right?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #19
Copied from the wrong thread ...

Dave, if you're all about FREEDOMTM then why the fuck are you defending the Confederacy? Bit daft for a bloke who's into freedom to be defending a bunch of slavers.
Well to be honest, I've never really looked into the details of actual history surrounding the Civil War and never read any original documents ... I've just dutifully swallowed what's been fed to me by the school system.  Were you aware that Lincoln did NOT make slavery an issue in his first inaugural address?  I was not.  In fact, Lincoln made it very clear he was NOT planning to change the institution of slavery where it existed.  Another question for you ... have you ever looked into the "industrial slavery" of white people in the North?  Do you know how their living / working conditions compared to the "farm slavery" of blacks in the South?  One more question ... do you know which slaves were primarily engaged in the slave brokering business?  Southern or Northern? 

If you like, please copy these questions to the appropriate thread and answer them there.  Thanks.

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #20
But it doesn't matter. Even if you didn't know what had preceded the speech, or what the points of contention regarding slavery were at the time, this quote should suffice to show you the TRUTH:
Quote
The 'Cornerstone'

Stephens' speech declared that disagreements over the enslavement of Africans was the "immediate cause" of secession, and that the Confederate Constitution had resolved such issues:

    "The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions--African slavery as it exists among us--the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it--when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."
Questions?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #21
Point #2 ... The United States owned Ft. Sumter ...

https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/who-owned-fort-sumter/

Anyone disagree with this?

Notice again Lincoln's FIA ...
Quote
"Use of force: Lincoln promised that there would be no use of force against the South, unless it proved necessary for him to fulfill his obligation to "hold, occupy, and possess the property and places" belonging to the federal government, [like Ft. Sumter] and to collect legal duties and imposts. However, if the South chose to actively take up arms against the Government, their insurrection would meet a firm and forceful response."

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #22
The secession had already occured, dave.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #23
So ... The federal government owned Ft. Sumter ... S. Carolina seceded (date? EDIT: date was Dec 20, 1860) ... and the Feds occupied unfinished Ft. Sumter in Dec 1860 ... [EDIT: Fast Fed response - 11 days or less after the secession]

Quote
Fort Sumter is an island fortification located in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina. Originally constructed in 1829 as a coastal garrison, Fort Sumter is most famous for being the site of the first shots of the Civil War (1861-65). U.S. Major Robert Anderson occupied the unfinished fort in December 1860 following South Carolina's secession from the Union, initiating a standoff with the state's militia forces. When President Abraham Lincoln announced plans to resupply the fort, Confederate General P.G.T. Beauregard bombarded Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861. After a 34-hour exchange of artillery fire, Anderson and 86 soldiers surrendered the fort on April 13. Confederate troops then occupied Fort Sumter for nearly four years, resisting several bombardments by Union forces before abandoning the garrison prior to William T. Sherman's capture of Charleston in February 1865. After the Civil War, Fort Sumter was restored by the U.S. military and manned during the Spanish-American War (1898), World War I (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45). http://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/fort-sumter

With me?

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #24
Dave, are you pretending I'm on ignore again?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.