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TR Memescape

  • Talk Rational: Sincerely, fuck off.

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1
You are welcome to give me examples of conscience in animals if you can.
It appears to me animals can feel guilty.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2
I think it would also include "doing something good in spite of great loss to yourself" ... I do think that animal mothers will do this sort of thing to protect their young ... not sure, but I would categorize this as "instinct."
Would this include dogs protecting their owners at the expense of the dogs' lives?
3
I'm going to have to look up C.S. Lewis' discussion of this topic ... that was an interesting read.
After your latest display of moral relativism, I'm afraid that even trying to open the cover of Mere Christianity will burn your hands.
4
I think it would also include "doing something good in spite of great loss to yourself" ... I do think that animal mothers will do this sort of thing to protect their young ... not sure, but I would categorize this as "instinct."
Fun fact: Scholars in past ceturies had argued that predators would feel remorse after killing their prey, which was why they were acting like they were "shameful". It actually was the typical vigilance in their concern to secure their prey from others.
5
I'm going to have to look up C.S. Lewis' discussion of this topic ... that was an interesting read.
6
I think it would also include "doing something good in spite of great loss to yourself" ... I do think that animal mothers will do this sort of thing to protect their young ... not sure, but I would categorize this as "instinct."
7
Do you accept vivisectus's provisional definition ("doing something good for another without any direct gain for yourself")?
8
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/local-roots-farm-in-a-box-coming-to-a-distribution-center-near-you/
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These two fresh-faced LA boys founded Local Roots four years ago. Their first purchases were broken-down, 40-foot shipping containers--this is apparently easy to do, since it is cheaper for shipping companies to just churn out new ones rather than fix broken ones. Local Roots then upcycles them into modular, shippable, customizable farms, each of which can grow as much produce as five acres of farmland. The idea is to supplement, not supplant, outdoor agriculture. And Ars got a look at one of these "farms" when it was set up in New York City recently.


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TerraFarms use no pesticides, herbicides, or fertilizers--they don't have to. This means they generate no toxic runoff, and the produce fits most definitions of organic food. They use 99-percent less water and obviously much less land than outdoor farms. Since the farms are indoors, they are not subject to the vagaries of weather, be it the extreme temperatures, storms, and droughts brought on by climate change or the more mundane conditions of heat, cold, or dryness that exist outside of LA.

9
The position that there is such a thing as a soul or spirit is inherently religious. Your own justification for the belief in such things seems to be the existence of conscience, assuming that it is something that we cannot explain in non-religious terms, and unique to humans. Humans seem to have a conscience, you state, and animals do not, thus there must be a supernatural element to human consciousness.

But you are making a few mistakes. Firstly, conscience is not that hard to account for without invoking the supernatural or the spiritual.

Secondly, what we call conscience in humans - doing something good for another without any direct gain for yourself - is not unique to humans.

Your world-view where animals are mere instinct-driven automata and humans are the only ones with consciousness is one of those examples where you prefer a simple story and then just ignore all indications to the contrary. What we can observe in reality is infinitely more complex.
You are welcome to give me examples of conscience in animals if you can.
10
My criterion is not religious. I am not religious. My criterion is scientific. Theology was once called "The Queen of Sciences" and it should be called that again.