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Topic: RH Brown and Carbon 14 (Read 13996 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3200
Explanation for what?

 And hold on. I thought it was YOU that was going to explain.
Ok. First, do you understand that Brown's curve or any similar curve based on any c14 concentration model at all makes testable predictions? And that those predictions are entirely independent of any actual measurements of c14 concentration in samples?
[Y]
[N]

I don't understand ANY curves very well ... and I think that data is often cherry picked by Old Earthers to support their own paradigm ...
Ok. You are saying
[NO], right? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Correct?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3201
[NO], right? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Correct?
Ah.
That explains why he so assiduously applied
Afdave's Fourth Law:
Unanswerable questions are invisible.

... to all the questions about the original Arkonaut sloth couple somehow getting from Ararat to Rampart Cave within a couple of years of The Global Flood, and pooping out all of Long & Martin's Unit C within 10 years, as required by Brown's admittedly incomprehensible to Hawkins curve.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3202
[NO], right? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Correct?
Ah.
That explains why he so assiduously applied
Afdave's Fourth Law:
Unanswerable questions are invisible.

... to all the questions about the original Arkonaut sloth couple somehow getting from Ararat to Rampart Cave within a couple of years of The Global Flood, and pooping out all of Long & Martin's Unit C within 10 years, as required by Brown's admittedly incomprehensible to Hawkins curve.


Yeah, any thoughts on this Dave, you obviously must have given this type of thing a lot of thought (in addition to Hawkinsing lots).


  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3203
[NO], right? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Correct?
Ah.
That explains why he so assiduously applied
Afdave's Fourth Law:
Unanswerable questions are invisible.

... to all the questions about the original Arkonaut sloth couple somehow getting from Ararat to Rampart Cave within a couple of years of The Global Flood, and pooping out all of Long & Martin's Unit C within 10 years, as required by Brown's admittedly incomprehensible to Hawkins curve.


Yeah, any thoughts on this Dave, you obviously must have given this type of thing a lot of thought (in addition to Hawkinsing lots).
Bluffy Hawkinzes his own thoughts.
Are we there yet?

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3204
Explanation for what?

 And hold on. I thought it was YOU that was going to explain.
Ok. First, do you understand that Brown's curve or any similar curve based on any c14 concentration model at all makes testable predictions? And that those predictions are entirely independent of any actual measurements of c14 concentration in samples?
[Y]
[N]

I don't understand ANY curves very well ... and I think that data is often cherry picked by Old Earthers to support their own paradigm ...
Ok. You are saying
[NO], right? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Correct?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3205
I don't understand ANY curves very well...
What happened to that famous high speed mind that was running circles around the rest of us?

You don't even seem to have understood Testy's first question. He wasn't asking if you understood any of the curves in great detail. He was asking if you understood that, as models, any curves will make predictions about the real world.

Do you understand that models make predictions?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No


If yes, do you understand that the curves are models?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No


If yes, do you agree that, as models, curves make predictions?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

If you can get your high speed mind to jump through the hoops of those questions, and have managed to answer "Yes" so far, we can then move on to Testy's second question:

Do you agree that the predictions made by models are not dependent on real word data? In other words, do you agree that since models are made by humans they can make them without reference to actual data?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

And I bet you will reply with snark and or bluster rather than simply answering.
Truth is out of style

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3206
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.

  • Fenrir
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3207
So to be honest, I don't know how you can still be misrepresenting uniformitarianism and expecting anyone to take you seriously.
It's what plants crave.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3208
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
You still don't seem to understand Testy's questions. You're still talking about something else entirely.
Truth is out of style

  • Faid
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3209
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
IOW: "I don't know how or why you're wrong, but I know I'm right and therefore you are wrong somehow".

Brillant Dave Hawkins, Amateur Scientist Extraordinaire.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3210
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood ...
Yabbut there isn't.
And every time you're asked to present any, it's always the same old same old.

Afdave's Third Law:
 If you have an objection to any point I've raised, I've already addressed it. No, I won't tell you where.


And, no, "billionzofdeadthings" and "lotzoffludlegends" is not "massive evidence" of a "Recent Global Flood".
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3211
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.

No it isn't.

You just still don't understand that scientists fit models to data not data to models.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3212
that's why the curves matter. When we fit the count-date vs radiocarbon date  model to the data, we find that it does not show a cataclysm.  It does not show what RH Brown predicted it would show.

It shows that there has been no cataclysm for at least the last 50,000 years.

There is NO evidence for a global flood within the last 10,000 years.  And the radiocarbon calibration curves show that there was NOT.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • JonF
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3213
So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
Nope, simpler than pie.

Laws of physics and chemistry, Davie-doodles.

Traces of the past.

In which such a global catastrophe would be so obvious nobody could deny it.

Those traces ain't there.

Unless you want to claim magic, wreaked by a God who's lying to us on an unamaginable scale.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3214
So to be honest, I don't know how you can still be misrepresenting uniformitarianism and expecting anyone to take you seriously.
Bluffy doesn't expect anyone to take him seriously.
It's a comedy act.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3215
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
IOW: "I don't know how or why you're wrong, but I know I'm right and therefore you are wrong somehow".

Brillant Dave Hawkins, Amateur "Scientist" Extraordinaire.
FYP
Are we there yet?

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3216
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
So, you're saying that [no] you don't understand what Brown's curve represents. Right?

Although I do note that you tipped your hand there by pointing out that you are sure the evidence you initially trotted out as supporting your case is wrong and you don't care because you just know there was a global flood. Which, speaking as someone who's mind is far more open than yours, I'm going to have to withhold belief in a flood until I see some evidence. I guess you also just know there is a continent sized layer of sedimentary rock that is extremely flat and thin on every continent that just happens to line up perfectly to support a global flood just 6k years ago despite that being laughably stupid too. Well. Suit yourself. I am happy to explain any science I understand to you but I want to start with the problem that the mere existence of Brown's curve causes your model. If you were interested in science, you'd want to know.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3217
So to be honest, I don't know how you can still be misrepresenting uniformitarianism and expecting anyone to take you seriously.
Bluffy doesn't expect anyone to take him seriously.
It's a comedy act.
I think there is something going on like that
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3218
Btw, that is called badgering now.
:badger:
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Fenrir
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3219
As it happens there is a layer that is very thin and very flat and found all over the world. Do you know what it is and what it says about your fludde David?
It's what plants crave.

  • JonF
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3220
I am happy to explain any science I understand to you but I want to start with the problem that the mere existence of Brown's curve causes your model.
To what?
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3221
I am happy to explain any science I understand to you but I want to start with the problem that the mere existence of Brown's curve causes your model.
To what?
The fact that Brown made that model at all and tried to find a curve that fits not just known data but obvious methodology of layer counting speaks to a fundamental truth that creationism cannot reconcile with their "scientific" model which suggest a very young planet and a global flood just 6000 years ago. YEC's absolutely need to hold two utterly incompatible truths. It's a complicated problem.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3222
So to be honest, I don't know how you can still be misrepresenting uniformitarianism and expecting anyone to take you seriously.
Bluffy doesn't expect anyone to take him seriously.
It's a comedy act.
I think there is something going on like that
Problem for Bluffy is while he subconsciously knows it's a comedy act, he conscious self is unaware of it but desperately denies it.
Are we there yet?

Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3223
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
So, you're saying that [no] you don't understand what Brown's curve represents. Right?

Although I do note that you tipped your hand there by pointing out that you are sure the evidence you initially trotted out as supporting your case is wrong and you don't care because you just know there was a global flood. Which, speaking as someone who's mind is far more open than yours, I'm going to have to withhold belief in a flood until I see some evidence. I guess you also just know there is a continent sized layer of sedimentary rock that is extremely flat and thin on every continent that just happens to line up perfectly to support a global flood just 6k years ago despite that being laughably stupid too. Well. Suit yourself. I am happy to explain any science I understand to you but I want to start with the problem that the mere existence of Brown's curve causes your model. If you were interested in science, you'd want to know.
is this correct, Dave? You do not understand what Brown's curve represents. Right?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • MikeS
Re: RH Brown and Carbon 14
Reply #3224
What I'm saying is (a) there is massive evidence of a recent global flood and (b) any kind of uniformitarian analysis is therefore fucked from the get go ... even Brown's analysis is not correct although it at least attempts to take into account a massive perturbation.

So to be honest, I don't know how you make models and predictions about such a massive cataclysm.  I suppose it can be done, but it's gonna be difficult.
Dave,
Do you realize that for the "massive perturbation" to be detected is has to have data?  And every time scientists go out and take measurements of items that cross over your proposed date(s) for this "massive perturbation", they find no perturbation whatsoever.

All creationists have done is create a "story" (i.e. a hypothesis) about how the things we see today appeared during a "massive perturbation" that you call the Flood of the Bible.  Stories (and hypothesis) are NOT data.  And NO data result that support the "massive perturbation".

You can dance and sing all you like about millionsofthingsburiedinlayersbywaterallovertheearth, but that is ONLY your hypothesis, NOT data.