Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • TR: Turning the gain up on this shit.

Topic: corbyn won (Read 3853 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: corbyn won
Reply #25

Re: corbyn won
Reply #26

Re: corbyn won
Reply #27
oh ok. this was the comment attached to it on twitter: "Well this should put the middle class, quinoa eating Corbynite trope to bed. But it won't because it was never honest"

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #28
hey yo what do the acronyms in red boxes mean: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtI795mXYAAFEK3.jpg:large

It's social class, coded A to E as defined in census categories.  C is subdivided into C1 and C1,

http://www.ukgeographics.co.uk/blog/social-grade-a-b-c1-c2-d-e

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #29
Looks like the young people (18-24) have been shafted again.

Re: corbyn won
Reply #30
also scotland

shoulda got out while you had the chance
  • Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 06:57:59 AM by the idea of Harambe

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #31
So many young people voted for Corbyn first time, AND Brexit, and are dismayed that Corbyn was so feeble on Brexit.

I know several who voted for both, but voted for Smith this time round.  Looks like I was seeing a trend.

Re: corbyn won
Reply #32
so many things are different about your electoral system that i can't really understand the arguments people are making. like, over here i really think the democratic mainstream would have rallied behind sanders (grudgingly) if he won the nomination, but that doesn't necessarily make them better than the labour people who want to leave and form their own party, it could just be the reality of our system where that course of action is basically insane. in britain it seems like an actual viable thing. and then what would this new party do if not coalition with the rump labour party? although i guess at that point they'd be the leader of the coalition and could choose the PM...?

Re: corbyn won
Reply #33
Looks like the young people (18-24) have been shafted again.
also scotland

Not necessarily, no. That poll was of party members only; registered and affiliated supporters weren't included.

Re: corbyn won
Reply #34
well scotland is still probably feeling pretty dumb after britain decided to go full america after they decided to prudently stick with their old chums england and wales (ireland still doesnt count bc they're papist savages imo)

fucking lmao
\/\/\/\/
  • Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 07:13:35 AM by the idea of Harambe

Re: corbyn won
Reply #35
Yeah, one of the arguments the No campaign made was that staying in the Union was our best bet to make sure we stayed in the EU. That worked out well.

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #36
Looks like the young people (18-24) have been shafted again.
also scotland

Not necessarily, no. That poll was of party members only; registered and affiliated supporters weren't included.

Ah. thanks.

Re: corbyn won
Reply #37
Yeah, one of the arguments the No campaign made was that staying in the Union was our best bet to make sure we stayed in the EU. That worked out well.

so wait, if scotland left GB, they would have to go through a whole big thing to join the EU, they couldn't just apply to have their membership idk grandfathered in or something?

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #38
so many things are different about your electoral system that i can't really understand the arguments people are making. like, over here i really think the democratic mainstream would have rallied behind sanders (grudgingly) if he won the nomination, but that doesn't necessarily make them better than the labour people who want to leave and form their own party, it could just be the reality of our system where that course of action is basically insane. in britain it seems like an actual viable thing. and then what would this new party do if not coalition with the rump labour party? although i guess at that point they'd be the leader of the coalition and could choose the PM...?

It's totally different.  This thing bears only the tiniest resemblance to a primary.  It was just an internal poll of Labour party members, affiliates (via their union) and "supporters" (who had to pay a joining fee).  It's a tiny swathe of the electorate.

Which is why they call it a "selectorate"  :gonk:

I have no idea what will happen. It's basically slow suicide for both party and country IMO.

I just hope I'm wrong, and Corbyn manages to do his magic on the whole country or at least 51% of it.

And somehow turn into someone who can run a piss-up in a brewery i.e. not fuck up just about everything to do with managing his cabinet.  Not that they were exactly cooperative, but he managed to lose a huge proportion of those who initially wished him well.  Doing stuff like announcing new policies without bothering to tell the shadow minister he'd just appointed first.

And totally missing open goals at PMQs.  And losing Brexit.

Gah.

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE his policies[1].  If he could make them happen he'd be the best leader ever.  But it turns out that he's crap at doing what it takes to do that.  He's also become a sanctimonioius prig in my view.
apart from homeopathy on the NHS  ::)
  • Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 07:32:05 AM by Pingu

Re: corbyn won
Reply #39
so you think that the primary barrier to his policy getting enacted is his personal lack of ability as a politician and not the recalcitrance of the rest of the party to his policies? would a split by the 80% lead to a party that has mostly the same policies but a better leader?

Re: corbyn won
Reply #40
It means a minority of the electorate (ie: a majority of Labour party members) are in love with him, but most of the UK wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

ok but you also just posted something saying that a majority of his supporters think he's bad. that's what doesn't make sense, otherwise "the party base loves him but the nation at large doesn't" is a familiar concept.

i also don't understand the significance of this when it comes to how shit will go down in parliament. as i understand it the PM is just the leader of whatever coalition has the most sitting legislators. so he doesn't actually have to "run for election" to the PM spot like a US presidential candidate.
British politics.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: corbyn won
Reply #41
so you think that the primary barrier to his policy getting enacted is his personal lack of ability as a politician and not the recalcitrance of the rest of the party to his policies? would a split by the 80% lead to a party that has mostly the same policies but a better leader?

Well, part of it is that he's surrounded himself with ideologically pure but functionally illiterate jackasses, and partly he's surrounded himself with people who are unpredictably racist, antisemitic, and xenophobic, and many have been embroiled in scandals and Corbyn is personally unwilling to throw these degenerates under a bus in order to enact the reforms people voted for.

Like, I'm sure we could blame establishment politics for some of his failures, but you can't blame establishment politics for all of them. At some point you need to look around and say "yeah this guy is a crap politician"

Re: corbyn won
Reply #42
i'm Just Asking Questions, buddy

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #43
so you think that the primary barrier to his policy getting enacted is his personal lack of ability as a politician and not the recalcitrance of the rest of the party to his policies? would a split by the 80% lead to a party that has mostly the same policies but a better leader?

I think that if we want to get a left-wing government elected we need a leader who can make the left wing argument to at least >50% of the voters.

Corbyn is brilliant at getting people who agree with him to get involved, which is great.  But it's not enough, especially when some of those people are really really shitty.

Most MPs know that Corbyn's policies and arguments go down badly with their voters.  If Corbyn could provide them with some really good arguments and really good, well costed policies, and could somehow manage to convince the country that he wasn't just a hairy lefty terrorist sympathiser, maybe they'd have a chance.  But he is a hairy lefty terrorist sympathiser so that's a hard sell.

Bernie was better.  We have lots of Brits that are better, but most are not MPs.  Not least that it's hard for really left wing MPs to get elected. Because the left wing argument has not yet been effectively made.  So someone needs to step up to the plate, or we need to settle for something less.

I'd settle for quite a lot less.  Blair wasn't bad until he went to war.  Brown was potentially better, if he hadn't been such a curmudgeon.

We have SO much to lose under the Tories, including our health and education systems.  We've already lost most of our manufacturing industry because of Thatcher.

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #44
so you think that the primary barrier to his policy getting enacted is his personal lack of ability as a politician and not the recalcitrance of the rest of the party to his policies? would a split by the 80% lead to a party that has mostly the same policies but a better leader?

Well, part of it is that he's surrounded himself with ideologically pure but functionally illiterate jackasses, and partly he's surrounded himself with people who are unpredictably racist, antisemitic, and xenophobic, and many have been embroiled in scandals and Corbyn is personally unwilling to throw these degenerates under a bus in order to enact the reforms people voted for.

Like, I'm sure we could blame establishment politics for some of his failures, but you can't blame establishment politics for all of them. At some point you need to look around and say "yeah this guy is a crap politician"

Yeah.

I agree with teeth!

Let the record show.

  • Pingu
Re: corbyn won
Reply #45
It means a minority of the electorate (ie: a majority of Labour party members) are in love with him, but most of the UK wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

ok but you also just posted something saying that a majority of his supporters think he's bad. that's what doesn't make sense, otherwise "the party base loves him but the nation at large doesn't" is a familiar concept.

i also don't understand the significance of this when it comes to how shit will go down in parliament. as i understand it the PM is just the leader of whatever coalition has the most sitting legislators. so he doesn't actually have to "run for election" to the PM spot like a US presidential candidate.

Well, in effect he does.  Who the leader is makes a huge difference to whether people will vote for that party's MPs, not least because he's the one who promises to implement the platform.  The leader is usually in a "safe seat" but also has to run for his own seat (and interestingly Corbyn's is disappearing under the boundary changes, but he'll get first dibs on the new constituency I expect).

Re: corbyn won
Reply #46
Most MPs know that Corbyn's policies and arguments go down badly with their voters.  If Corbyn could provide them with some really good arguments and really good, well costed policies, and could somehow manage to convince the country that he wasn't just a hairy lefty terrorist sympathiser, maybe they'd have a chance.  But he is a hairy lefty terrorist sympathiser so that's a hard sell.

Well, I don't think it's that. I think he tries to communicate ideas that the general public are behind (e.g. let's make sure our allies are our allies, let's not get involved in more wars, etc) but he does it with such lack of nuance and tone-deafness that it sounds like he's recruiting for Hamas or something. And he surrounds himself with people who ACTUALLY hate Jews, don't care about refugees, are anti-science, and who actually are pro-Brexit, and is unwilling to kick them to the curb because they're old allies of his.

He's basically like the US Green Party.

Re: corbyn won
Reply #47
so does anyone on the pro-corbyn side wanna address this "pals with antisemites" stuff, i think there's a possibility that this is teeth's special way of saying "doesn't support israel" but i can't tell for sure.

  • Pingu