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Messages - Dave Hawkins

1
 I don't think they starved. There's plenty of grain / grass / bugs in my pasture.
2
 A bunch got killed by neighbor dogs while free ranging. Then I tried keeping them in the goat pen and a few died for unknown reasons. Then I bought my daughter a dog and the neighbor dogs were no longer a problem but my dog killed several. Now I have 1  and my dog seems to be trained not to kill them anymore.
3
 this website claims 16% US RDA for vitamin D for four ounces of grass fed cows milk.  have no idea how they determine that. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=130
4
I may be somewhat borderline on my vitamin D intake but I think my plans are sound because my plans include pastured eggs. It's just that I haven't come up with a system I like yet.  here's a mother Earth news report on pastured eggs.

https://www.organicconsumers.org/scientific/free-range-eggs-contain-more-vitamin-d-according-mother-earth-news-study

Dave has circa 10 acres of mixed pasture and woodland. How hard can it be to keep a few chooks? I have friends who keep them in their back garden, supplying them with all the eggs they need.
not hard at all if you do things the normal way. You've known me all these years and have you not noticed yet that I'm not normal?
5
How many eggs are your chickens producing?
Zero.  as I said, I don't like my system.
6
 I may be somewhat borderline on my vitamin D intake but I think my plans are sound because my plans include pastured eggs. It's just that I haven't come up with a system I like yet.  here's a mother Earth news report on pastured eggs.

https://www.organicconsumers.org/scientific/free-range-eggs-contain-more-vitamin-d-according-mother-earth-news-study
7
 my goats actually catch a lot of sun even in winter but of course they have hair so I really have no way of knowing how much vitamin D ends up in their milk
8
I rechecked vitamin A... Yeah I'm at 80% USRDA with a half gallon per day.

 also at 2000 mg per day of both calcium and phosphorus. 
Not much good if you're vitamin D deficient.
True
9
 I rechecked vitamin A... Yeah I'm at 80% USRDA with a half gallon per day.

 also at 2000 mg per day of both calcium and phosphorus. 
10
So Ca, P and Vit A from  goat milk ...  never mind the vitamin D
11
 I didn't actually notice it was "with vitamin D added"... Thanks
13
So again -  it is quite likely that my goat milk alone provides me with "protective saliva" so that I could literally swish maple syrup around in my mouth all day long if I want to and not get dental caries.
14
Also - same link - my Vit A and D are minimum 80% USRDA from my 1/2 gallon per day of goat milk alone
15
Nutrition is necessarily complex.
It involves scores of separate, individual, nutrients, in essentially an infinity of possible combinations.
It is not one "Big Button".
For instance: goat milk.
Goat milk is not a "Big Button".
We learned upthread that you'd need to drink at least several liters - up to 25 - just to reach the USRDA of vitamin D.
It seems probable that YOUR diet is vitamin D deficient.
What makes you think it is not?

No.

Read my goat milk post again.

1/2 gallon of goat milk per day gets me Price's 2 grams per day of both calcium and phosphorus according to the link i provided.
16
Face it, Pingu ... you simply don't want to face the evidence because of your pet views.
17
Quote
And therefore, if you took a sample of people all eating a Price Diet (or nutritional equivalent), but some of whom ate lots of sugar IN ADDITION, you would not see this relationship, right?  There would simply be no dental caries (or very little) in any of them.

Can you point to ANY data that shows this?
Already did.  You poo poohed it.  Remember Price's orphanage kids?  They still ate pancakes and syrup and doughnuts and jam and so on at times OTHER THAN LUNCHTIME.  Yet their caries was completely arrested.

Also, almost every indigenous group Price visited ate starchy foods and sugary foods as part of their diets (fruit, bread, etc).  Yet they had extremely low incidence of caries.
18
"I have a Darwin-debased mind."

Yes.

Yes, you do.
19
"Finding a group without dental caries does not show that it was their NUTRITION that prevented their dental caries Dave."

You objected that there is no data.  I responded by showing you the data.

Now you are raising a DIFFERENT objection.  And that objection is easily overcome by noting that Price found MANY groups (data) all of whom had (a) near perfect teeth and (b) no town food

So while you are correct that

"Finding A [single] group without dental caries does not show that it was their NUTRITION that prevented their dental caries Dave"  ...

you need to understand that ...

Finding MANY groupS without dental caries who didn't eat town food DOES show that it was their NUTRITION that prevented their dental caries.

Is there anything else you'd like help with?
20
It does make you wonder how Dave thinks scientific methodology works.

Or even what scientists do every day.


I'm going to tell you what food scientists and agriculture scientists do every day ...

1) Drive to the office
2) Drink coffee
3) Read
[3a) Argue online with Dave]
4) Socialize with other office personnel
5) Work on a paper commmissioned by Monsanto or some other paying entity
6) Have lunch
7) Teach a class
8 ) Send some emails about next month's convention on how to make corn produce twice as many bushels per acre
9) Have some more coffee
[9a) Argue online with Dave]
10) Listen to the secretary complaining about the teachers at her kids' school
11) Go home
12) Get paid.
21
again... amply supported in all his writings.

Writings don't support a hypothesis, Dave.  Data do.

Where are the DATA in those writings, specifically that piece of writing you thought was "very good science" that support the hypthesis you considered he expressed so clearly?
Page 872 is chock full of data.  Such as...

"Three groups were found, consisting of 76 individuals with 2144 teeth and without a single tooth having been attacked by dental caries ... "

And so on.
22
 again... amply supported in all his writings.
23
I'm always looking for concise ways to say things so how about this?

NUTRITION IS A MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE "BUTTON" WE CAN PUSH THAN ANY OTHER TO CONTROL CARIES.

In fact, no other "buttons" are necessary if we push that one.
and here is a more concise way to state his hypothesis
24
I wrote

"3) explained his hypothesis clearly - that it's not "cleanliness" or anything else ... it's NUTRITION that controls caries"

 but due to the limitations of our language, this really doesn't capture the complete picture.

 maybe a better way to say it was that price discovered "a big button" to control dental caries much more effectively than any other means being attempted in his day.

NUTRITION

 and he found many indigenous groups which were using this "big button" effectively  with the result of near perfect teeth.

 The contrast between the result  of using this "big button" by "primitive" people versus  The pushing of "many small buttons" by supposedly "advanced" society could not be more vividly illustrated than by the comparison of the LV children versus the Saint Moritz children.
This  is a better way to state prices hypothesis... And that paper is chock-full of evidence supporting this hypothesis