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Messages - Lugubert

1
... my TR customers  ...
Have you noticed that you have failed to make a single sale after 10 years?
Not too surprising, as he for example can't tell prospective buyers how much it will cost to follow his ideas.
2
Hey girls ... got anything interesting to talk about RE: saving agriculture?
I'm not a girl, but RE: Economics,

As a thought experiment, let's assume that a person is interested in your ideas. That person will probably want to know how much money, work and time will be needed before the setup assumes at least a steady state, financially break even level. Just skip details like how land is acquired for free.

What proven facts will you present to help you selling your idea?
3
I'll try again
[...]
As a thought experiment, let's assume that a person is interested in starting a Dave operation. That person will probably want to know how much money, work and time will be needed before the setup assumes at least a steady state, financially break even level. Just skip details like how land is acquired for free.

What proven facts will you present to help you selling your idea?
[...]
4
A summary is a distillation of the main points. That's all I want. Can you do that for me, Dave? Tell me what I'm the article supports your claim that the Sahara is human-caused.

Because, Dave, if you can't explain it in your own words, we have to assume that you don't understand it.
5
Dave, do you have any evidence whatsoever beyond "The Sahara desertified; the Mongolian steppe is desertifying by overgrazing, so the Sahara decertified by overgrazing"?
Nice summary.
6
Dave, being a salesman, you must know that even if your prospective customers are exceptionally gullible, it is important to have taken some time to think of how to handle possible questions and objections before confronting them.

As a thought experiment, let's assume that a person is interested in starting a Dave operation. That person will probably want to know how much money, work and time will be needed before the setup assumes at least a steady state, financially break even level. Just skip details like how land is acquired for free.

What proven facts will you present to help you selling your idea?

I've previously asked such questions from my Swedish circumstances, and don't remember getting usefully detailed information, but just choose any (specified) environment.
7
For that claim to be true, there would have to be no herbivores in that particular location. And if there are not any, then of course this system will not work. Again it only works where herbivores already exist in a particular location.
"that claim" probably = "That this system doesn't work in all parts of the world where there are herbivores?".

How will it work in a moderately dense forest that sustainably feeds substantial populations of moose and deer?
By opening up the forest canopy to approximately 50% sunlight penetration.
How does opening the canopy help in dragging animal tractors over boulders and tree stumps?
Opening the canopy allows grass to grow.  My preference would be to open up alleyways - 30 to 100 feet wide.  These would be cleared in the same way that forest is currently cleared for tillage.

Where?
Right; I overlooked the forest tillage part. Seconded. Where?

Added:
Quote from: Pingu
Partridge?

In the forests i was thinking of, rather blackcock, capercaillie, and further North perhaps ptarmigan and lemmings. Plus the odd hare.
8
Opening the canopy [to approximately 50% sunlight penetration] allows grass to grow.  My preference would be to open up alleyways - 30 to 100 feet wide.  These would be cleared in the same way that forest is currently cleared for tillage. 
How much is the present penetration? Why speak of "opening ... canopy" when you mean fell trees? How else will you get more sunlight to a spruce forest  floor?

How much grass will grow in a partially cleared spruce forest? Not too much I think, because of heather and blueberries.
 
"Alleyways" with tractor traffic would probably scare away wildlife, so no herbivores. No Dave system.
9
My observation is that the majority of people all over the world now think of "farmin'" as giant John Deere tractors and plows and discs and planters and cultivators and sprayers and combines and trucks and grain bins and trains to transport the grain and so on .... And this majority is oblivious to the fact that this whole "farmin" paradigm is destroying topsoil and has already created massive deserts in various parts of the earth and will continue to create more deserts if not stopped.
Is this really the majority view of people in any other countries than the US? A picture of even more than one combine harvester on the same field makes my only guess USA.
Canada.
Wow. Twice as many than I thought. Any more? How many countries are there?
10
For that claim to be true, there would have to be no herbivores in that particular location. And if there are not any, then of course this system will not work. Again it only works where herbivores already exist in a particular location.
"that claim" probably = "That this system doesn't work in all parts of the world where there are herbivores?".

How will it work in a moderately dense forest that sustainably feeds substantial populations of moose and deer?
By opening up the forest canopy to approximately 50% sunlight penetration.
How does opening the canopy help in dragging animal tractors over boulders and tree stumps?
11
My observation is that the majority of people all over the world now think of "farmin'" as giant John Deere tractors and plows and discs and planters and cultivators and sprayers and combines and trucks and grain bins and trains to transport the grain and so on .... And this majority is oblivious to the fact that this whole "farmin" paradigm is destroying topsoil and has already created massive deserts in various parts of the earth and will continue to create more deserts if not stopped.
Is this really the majority view of people in any other countries than the US? A picture of even more than one combine harvester on the same field makes my only guess USA.
12
For that claim to be true, there would have to be no herbivores in that particular location. And if there are not any, then of course this system will not work. Again it only works where herbivores already exist in a particular location.
"that claim" probably = "That this system doesn't work in all parts of the world where there are herbivores?".

How will it work in a moderately dense forest that sustainably feeds substantial populations of moose and deer?
13
Fenrir there is no point in proving to you people anything about parasites. I already know that parasite problems are eliminated if you're following the above principles no matter what kind of pasture you start with. 

Do I need to remind you why I post here? I just listed the reasons the other day so I thought you might remember. One of the reasons I post here is NOT to prove to you that my system eliminates parasites.
Makes sense. You won't prove it, because you can't.

Prove me wrong by telling us how many of which parasites were there before you started, and what the situation is now.

Or is all this parasite removal thing just a thought experiment?
14
What will only get you laughed at is taking a piece of land which is unlikely to have any parasite load and running a couple of goats (clean due to prophylactic medication) on it for a couple of years and then claiming victory.

Makes me repeat what I've asked you before, Dave: Which parasites did you identify on you land before acquiring goats?
15
And the REASON it's wrong is because most of what you read involves SELLING SOMETHING in some way.

SALES drives so much error in our world today.  And most selling is based on half truths, spin and manipulation.

Besides everything else, not all salesmen work like you do.
16
Dave, did you really shoo me off to another topic to avoid discussing C14, just like everyone thought you would?
You are easy to predict.
Well, answering questions is a duty for everyone but Dave.
17
Testy you probably missed my question earlier. I would like to understand more of the secrets of your happy marriage. Did you sow your Wild Oats so to speak before meeting your wife?
What about answering some of the questions we have asked you? Like which parasites that you fear are present where you drag your goats?
18
Wouldn't it be neat if we could go like 10 pages without seeing the word Nazi? That has gotten really stupid.
Until you recognize your role in enabling modern Nazis,  it's a permanent subtext to everything you write.
I would say that some of your posts here make you more of a Nazi than me.
You keep using that word...
19
to be fair every Nazi I've met has been a bitter person
YOU  Valor ... are one person i WOULD charactrrize as "bitter."  I've not seen the likes of the Venom you spew coming from any other person here at TR.

So maybe that makes you a Nazi?

"Every cat is an animal, therefore every animal is a cat."
- Dave Hawkins

And of course, Dave still doesn't understand what "Nazi" means.
20
Dave, you're afraid that your goats will get parasites if not incarcerated. Which parasites have you found where that you're afraid of?
21
I find Dave's
Quote from: Dave
displaying her wares
interesting.

It looks to me like Dave is viewing young girls as commodities. Not too surprising, considering that he approves of (or at least won't unambiguously reject) the OT view that daughters may be sold.
22
You guys can think whatever you want to.  You always do no matter what the facts are anyway.  But the truth is ... we were discussing longevity of indigenous people groups and I found an old Maasai guy that was spry enough to marry a young bride - woo hoo!  I'll say it again and I'll keep saying it as long as it comes up.  "Woo hoo!  The guy's nowhere close to being dead ... everyone seems happy ... Woo hoo!"  You guys have something mentally wrong if you can't see the appropriateness of my comment. 
Oh, I see.
Your "woo-hoo!" was only celebrating the old guy's health, and was exactly equivalent to the "woo-hoo!" you would have given to a healthy blood pressure reading, and had absolutely nothing to do with "hubba-hubba - what old guy wouldn't want to get it on with a 15 year old"

::)

So, now we have two threads where Dave defends selling of daughters. Sad.
23
First lie: "child marriage" - you are giving readers the impression that we were discussing "child marriage."  But I was not discussing child marriage.  I was discussing longevity of indigenous people groups.  In my search for long lived indigenous people, I ran across that article so I posted it with the "woo hoo" comment which echoed the sentiment of the on site white woman living in the village.  That was just a passing comment intended to communicate "wow, that 70 year old guy is plenty healthy enough to attract a hot young bride!"

Dave, everyone else reads

"yech, that 70 year old guy is plenty wealthy enough to buy a hot young bride!"

Looks more like her parents sold their daughter into slavery. Well, it's allowed in the OT if its cultural rules are followed, so I somewhat understand that you're all right with the transaction.
24
Quote from: Mark Shepherd
Goats can fit into a restoration ag system, but you have to understand the behaviors of goats. Their preferred food is browse.
my preferred food is filet mignon. What's your point?
Nobody is dragging you around in a mobile prison that keeps you from accessing filets but allows you just squirrel.
25
I've got news for you people... Real news, as opposed to fake news. Having them graze tall grass with seed heads and giving them browse (tree hay) as a supplement is a hell of a lot closer to Nature than having them graze the typical short, overgrazed pastures in my area and supplementing with massive amounts of grass hay and grain. Do you guys really believe that the typical goat owner in America truly allows goats to browse as they would in nature? If you do, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Can't you at least try to be consistent? First you make them "graze tall grass with seed heads" = grain, then, in the same sentence, you sound like grain = bad. In the next sentence, you agree that goats browse in nature, which you deny them in your tractor.