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Messages - JonF

1
One of my favorite statements from you guys was that Trump is a failed businessman. I think several of you said that, I forget which of you though. Oh my sides!
All of us did.

He lost money relative to the stock market. Can you list his failed businesses? Remember Trump Mortgage?
2
Huh?
Don't you worry your little head over it, dave.

Have you figured out yet that "Peoples_Pundit" lied to you?
That you're rebroadcasting Fake News like the useful idiot that you are?
no. It appears to me that Trump and Fox News have been pretty much right all along.
pretty much right...about what?
Dave?
pretty much right about people on the Obama team using unethical means to try to keep him from getting elected and for trying to remove him from Office once elected.
Pretty vague, not good enough for an indictment by a long shot.

Specifics?
3
Meanwhile this

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein told President Donald Trump last week that he isn't a target of any part of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation or the probe into his longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen, according to several people familiar with the matter.

Rosenstein, who brought up the investigations himself, offered the assurance during a meeting with Trump at the White House last Thursday, a development that helped tamp down the president's desire to remove Rosenstein or Mueller, the people said."

Bloomberg
The key word there is" target".

Trump is a subject of Mueller's investigation. He's not in the clear.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/trump-target-subject/557243/
4
"they are entirely different kinds of forest."

Really?

How?

Do they not both involve photosynthesis to create woody and leafy biomass?

Do they not both require a certain level of moisture and fertility in the soil?

Do you think goats like to eat leaves from the TDF but not the ARF?

Or what?

Quit talking out of your ass. 
If they weren't significantly different they wouldn't have different names

Got any reason to believe they are not significantly different?

Didn't think so.
5
By the way, one prerequisite for being a county commissioner... must be personally producing at least 2 million animal food calories per year in a rotational grazing system. Employees don't count. Kid / wife slaves don't count.  When we say personally we mean personally.
And nobody will figure out and implement a way around that.
6
I'm just wondering what Bluffy's reaction will be when the local land reallocation commission decides he's not taking care of his land and certainly not producing enough calories with it and reallocates it to someone else.

Perhaps because that someone had influence with the commissioners.
Or perhaps Bluffy has annoyed someone and they had influence with the commissioners.
The Commissioners will be at the county level. This means that they will be less corrupt than State Commissioners or federal commissioners. And the local County populace that elected them can watch them much more closely.
You are so naive.

Corruption in county governments is just as prevalent as at other levels. Just not as lucrative. Here in Massachusetts many county governments were abolished because the corruption was too deeply rooted in the system to root it out.

Politicians are going to be corrupt. One can hope that they also do some good, but it's not guaranteed.
7
"Trump is pretty dumb"

I can sort of understand testy saying "Dave is dumb." But Trump is dumb?

Wow.
Yup. Both of youse.
8
Labor expended should be a key consideration in control of any land in my opinion.
Enforced by whom? There will be some who disagree how much the labor is worth and disagreements about how much labor has been invested in particular plots..
9
I don't know if that's entirely true. He's advocated giving everyone land at least. I don't know if that includes a strawbale hovel or if they're expected to build their own, but it's at least partially similar in principle. It's kind of amazing how he rails against socialism while at the same time advocating it. I suspect he doesn't really understand what it means.
Why is me in favor of everyone being allocated 3 or 4 Acres of good land "socialism"?
Are you going to ban the sale of land from one party to another? If so then the 'government' is the 'owner' of the land. Even if you did allow the sale of land, equitable distribution of the means of production is 'socialism' by definition.

I see I'm ninja'd, of course.
I don't have any problem with conveying land to another party ... But I don't like the idea of land prices getting driven so high that common people who need access to land for the purpose of feeding themselves and their families cannot afford it.
So the government will regulate or establish land prices.

Not the market.
10
Not interesting, except as another example of your wishful thinking.
11
Fenrir knows the formula for a straight line!

So that means she's not totally ignorant.
That's not the formula for a straight line.

It's the formula for the entire real plane except a particular straight line.

Duh.

And we all understand what Testy means without further explanation.
12
Nonlinearity means that the system that works best on a small scale will not be the system that works best on a large scale.
Dave, does this mean anything at all to you?
Yes of course I understand this. But it all depends on what you mean by best. Best to me might be different than best to Donald Trump, for example.
IOW you don't understand it.

It's not about different people's definitions of "best"
13
But the problem comes for people who have "fake skills" ... what is a "fake skill"?  Well it's a skill that someone has that I don't have any need for.  For example, an insurance salesman.  I have no use for insurance anymore because all my stuff is so cheap, why would I want to insure it?
Missouri requires a minimum of $170,000 combined liability and uninsured motorist coverage to register a car. That's covering what you might do to others. 
14
As for Trump and environmentalism, I see him as a get-er-done guy who, with a little direction, would get-er-done with respect to environmental interests too.

Trump doesn't take direction. Ever.

The sacrifice of our environment to the Republican idol of corporate profit is well underway. It took decades of reduction and control to get where we are. Unless Trump is stopped soon it will take decades to recover from this administration. But those who could stop him all worship the same idol.

15
You claim to be so much better at science than me and you don't even know how to do a scientific comparison between tomatoes and a typical industrial commodity product such as field corn or soybeans. Jesus Christ.
I.e. you have no clues how to do it.
16
Sustainability through gardening is given a ton of lip service in the permaculture community and there's a bunch of  knowledgeable gardeners out there but I've never met anybody who is actually producing enough total food calories from their own gardening efforts to sustain their families. Everybody grows tomatoes and lettuce and carrots and all these other things that really don't provide very many balanced food calories. Potatoes do but you can only eat so many potatoes everyday.
Ah! This is where scale comes in. All that gardening reduces demand for monoculture. If you really do want to think big, try to imagine ways to cut into the markets rather than replace them. If monoculture were reduced drastically,  is there a level at which it can be at least semi sustainable? Every garden reduces industrial ag demand by some square feet of field space. Right?
Wrong. Unless you know gardeners that are growing field corn and soybeans and hard red winter wheat. I don't know of any.
You are thinking of industrial demand. Think holistically. Those tomatoes are food. People can only eat so much food. You might be surprised to learn where most of that product goes. Did you once say you were a desciple of Michael Pollan? The systemic use of processed food is a weird beast and fresh food is an important change in the overall food system.
Those tomatoes are food, but they are very low calorie food per pound. You can't say a gardener is reducing demand for industrial agriculture by planting tomatoes. That's nonsense.
If people are buying tomatoes produced by industrial agriculture, which they obviously are, then a non-industrial agriculture source of tomatoes obviously represents a reduction of the industrial market share. What is your problem with this? It's about as straightforward as it gets.
Well I may be wrong but I don't think tomatoes are typically grown under a destructive row crop tillage model are they?
17
The reason why I am fixated on Industrial monoculture is because I'm surrounded by it in my area.
I thought you were concerned with the world, not just your tiny corner of a Missouri county.
Why would anyone outside my home county do what I am doing until I show some success in my own home County?
Why would anyone outside your home county do what you are doing when it depends on Missouri conditions (and your peculiar eating habits)?
18
As for measuring my sustainable system versus other sustainable systems, I think I'm already doing that. What systems are there out there? Well there's gardening. And perennial tree and Bush crops such as Mark Sheppard advocates. And there's others who are doing rotational grazing. Oh and fishing. Can you think of anything else? Oh and fishing. Can you think of any other broad categories?
IOW you have ignored and forgotten all the many instances that have been posted.
19
The reason why I am fixated on Industrial monoculture is because I'm surrounded by it in my area.
I thought you were concerned with the world, not just your tiny corner of a Missouri county.
20
Can't come up with an answer, amirite?
21
Let's try again.

Dave, the following are two "rules" in nature:

1) Cattle occasionally bunch up.

2) Cattle don't bunch up without predators.

Both are things "Nature" does.

What makes one rule take precedence over the other? What is your methodology for choosing that rule?
This is such a dumb question I don't even know how to answer it but I'll try. In general herbivores are herding animals which means they like to graze (and live) in groups especially if there are predators in the vicinity. In an undisturbed ecosystem, they generally graze an area and then move on to a new area.
Which, of course, has nothing to do with the question.

Try "2 takes precedence over 1 because..." or vice versa.
22
Learn to read.

His pronoun "it" obviously referred to the history of European conquest in the Americas.

Nobody mentioned a refresher course.

Duh.
23
It's not a sound-bite kind of thing.
24
Dave's gonna love that.
25
We think that random mutations happen all over. Some of them lead to lactase persistence. In areas without much dairy, these tend not to spread quickly - and might die off, especially if the lactase persistence costs energy. In areas with lots of dairy, the mutation spreads. This leads to lactase persistence becoming the norm in areas with dairy, and not in areas without.
Well that's a nice just so story but I don't buy it. Why would lactase persistent people reproduce better than non lactase persistent people?

Just ask yourself, Dave: under what environmental circumstances might one species of mammal start to drink the milk of another?
Nice alternative to eating the flesh the other mammal? Tastes good? You csn make yogurt and cheese? Don't have to kill?
Fucking starving?

Cheese and yogurt are pretty ancient, and cheese travels well.