Talkrational Forum

Discussion => Alternative Reality Science Extravaganza => Topic started by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 07:31:37 AM

Title: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 07:31:37 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
How humans became so smart: Huge dose of the 'feel-good' chemical dopamine may be responsible for our intelligence
Quote
It's a chemical known to play a key role in pleasure and reward, and now it seems that dopamine may also play a part in human intelligence.
A new study has found that the dopamine system evolved differently in humans than it did in great apes.
The researchers found that humans have a generous supply of dopamine in the brain regions that help us think and plan - which could explain why we are more intelligent than other primates.


Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 08:01:15 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
How humans became so smart: Huge dose of the 'feel-good' chemical dopamine may be responsible for our intelligence
Quote
It's a chemical known to play a key role in pleasure and reward, and now it seems that dopamine may also play a part in human intelligence.
A new study has found that the dopamine system evolved differently in humans than it did in great apes.
The researchers found that humans have a generous supply of dopamine in the brain regions that help us think and plan - which could explain why we are more intelligent than other primates.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6366/1027
Molecular and cellular reorganization of neural circuits in the human lineage
Quote
Abstract
To better understand the molecular and cellular differences in brain organization between human and nonhuman primates, we performed transcriptome sequencing of 16 regions of adult human, chimpanzee, and macaque brains. Integration with human single-cell transcriptomic data revealed global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories. We validated and further characterized the human specificity of genes enriched in distinct cell types through histological and functional analyses, including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex. Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 24, 2017, 08:25:43 AM
The self-quoting thing is getting wose, isn't it?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 08:36:27 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
How humans became so smart: Huge dose of the 'feel-good' chemical dopamine may be responsible for our intelligence
Quote
It's a chemical known to play a key role in pleasure and reward, and now it seems that dopamine may also play a part in human intelligence.
A new study has found that the dopamine system evolved differently in humans than it did in great apes.
The researchers found that humans have a generous supply of dopamine in the brain regions that help us think and plan - which could explain why we are more intelligent than other primates.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6366/1027
Molecular and cellular reorganization of neural circuits in the human lineage
Quote
Abstract
To better understand the molecular and cellular differences in brain organization between human and nonhuman primates, we performed transcriptome sequencing of 16 regions of adult human, chimpanzee, and macaque brains. Integration with human single-cell transcriptomic data revealed global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories. We validated and further characterized the human specificity of genes enriched in distinct cell types through histological and functional analyses, including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex. Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
Quote
Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
It looks like there are "diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels".
As well as "including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex."

Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 09:01:42 AM
Quote
including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striatum
Quote
The striatum is divided into ventral and dorsal subdivisions, based upon function and connections.
The ventral striatum is composed of the nucleus accumbens and the olfactory tubercle.[4][8] The nucleus accumbens is made up of the nucleus accumbens core and nucleus accumbens shell, which differ by neuron populations. The olfactory tubercle receives input from the olfactory bulb but has not been shown to play a role in processing smell.[8] In non-primate species, the islands of Calleja are included.[9] The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 10:16:03 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 10:48:21 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system
Quote
The limbic system supports a variety of functions including emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory, and olfaction.[4] Emotional life is largely housed in the limbic system, and it has a great deal to do with the formation of memories.

The limbic system is often classified as a "cerebral structure". This structure is closely linked to olfaction, emotions, drives, autonomic regulation, memory, and pathologically to encephalopathy, epilepsy, psychotic symptoms, cognitive defects.[12] The functional relevance of the limbic system has proven to serve many different functions such as affects/emotions, memory, sensory processing, time perception, attention, consciousness, instincts, autonomic/vegetative control, and actions/motor behavior.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 10:59:41 AM
Quote
The limbic system is also tightly connected to the prefrontal cortex. Some scientists contend that this connection is related to the pleasure obtained from solving problems.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Testy Calibrate on November 24, 2017, 11:52:18 AM
This is kind of amazing
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 02:23:46 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
Quote
KEY FINDINGS
In the study, the researchers evaluated 247 samples of brain tissue from five macaque monkeys, five chimpanzees and six humans.
In particular, the researchers looked at which genes were turned on or off in 16 regions of the brain.
In most places, differences between the species were hardly noticeable.
But in the neocortex, a region involved in processing memories and language, and striatum, a region involved in making decisions, the researchers found stark differences.
The team found that two enzymes called tyrosine hydroxylase and DOPA decarboxylase, which are involved in the production of dopamine, had elevated activity in the human brain.
The researchers found that 1.5 per cent of the neurons in the human striatum were making dopamine - three times more than in the ape striatum.
While dopamine is best known for its role in pleasure and reward, it's also known to play a role in aspects of cognition and behaviour, such as working memory, reasoning, reflective exploratory behaviour, and overall intelligence.

Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 03:20:04 PM
borealis tells me he does not understand the point of this thread. So be it.
Not worth arguing about.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 03:44:14 PM
https://www.dnalc.org/view/812-The-Dopamine-System.html
Quote
The dopamine system is basically a group of nerve cells, most of which originate in the midbrain. They send their axons to the forebrain, to different parts of the forebrain, where they plug into particular functions. Now, I would say, to simplify things, that there are three main branches of this forebrain dopamine system. There's a branch that goes all the way to the frontal cortex, where it modulates cognitive function and enhances the efficiency of certain forms of thinking and working memory. There is a very famous branch which goes to a structure called the striatum, which is implicated in Parkinson's disease. Here dopamine is involved in facilitating movements. So in Parkinson's disease, when you lose dopamine, your movements become rigid and rather reduced in number and amplitude. The third important branch of the dopamine system is that it goes to structures in the limbic system of the brain, which is the emotional center of the brain, including the nucleus accumbens, which has often been called the reward center. Many drugs of abuse exert their effects indirectly or sometimes directly through this reward dopamine system. In general, I think that the dopamine system may work as one thing. It may work to prepare you for thinking, for movement, and for reward. And that's its main function. It functions in anticipation of behavioral and cognitive output.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: SkepticTank on November 24, 2017, 03:48:34 PM
This is kind of amazing
It's definitely something.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Fenrir on November 24, 2017, 03:56:28 PM
Hey Socrates, she said "dopiness", not "dopamine". It wasn't a compliment.

Not to worry, it's an easy mistake, anyone could make it, right?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Fenrir on November 24, 2017, 04:49:07 PM
Course it could have been "dopey man" or "dippy mind". Hard to know for sure, gets so noisy in the Quicky Mart.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 24, 2017, 04:53:52 PM
https://www.dnalc.org/view/812-The-Dopamine-System.html
Quote
The dopamine system is basically a group of nerve cells, most of which originate in the midbrain. They send their axons to the forebrain, to different parts of the forebrain, where they plug into particular functions. Now, I would say, to simplify things, that there are three main branches of this forebrain dopamine system. There's a branch that goes all the way to the frontal cortex, where it modulates cognitive function and enhances the efficiency of certain forms of thinking and working memory. There is a very famous branch which goes to a structure called the striatum, which is implicated in Parkinson's disease. Here dopamine is involved in facilitating movements. So in Parkinson's disease, when you lose dopamine, your movements become rigid and rather reduced in number and amplitude. The third important branch of the dopamine system is that it goes to structures in the limbic system of the brain, which is the emotional center of the brain, including the nucleus accumbens, which has often been called the reward center. Many drugs of abuse exert their effects indirectly or sometimes directly through this reward dopamine system. In general, I think that the dopamine system may work as one thing. It may work to prepare you for thinking, for movement, and for reward. And that's its main function. It functions in anticipation of behavioral and cognitive output.

Will be leaving this shortly.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 25, 2017, 06:48:38 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
Quote
KEY FINDINGS
In the study, the researchers evaluated 247 samples of brain tissue from five macaque monkeys, five chimpanzees and six humans.
In particular, the researchers looked at which genes were turned on or off in 16 regions of the brain.
In most places, differences between the species were hardly noticeable.
But in the neocortex, a region involved in processing memories and language, and striatum, a region involved in making decisions, the researchers found stark differences.
The team found that two enzymes called tyrosine hydroxylase and DOPA decarboxylase, which are involved in the production of dopamine, had elevated activity in the human brain.
The researchers found that 1.5 per cent of the neurons in the human striatum were making dopamine - three times more than in the ape striatum.
While dopamine is best known for its role in pleasure and reward, it's also known to play a role in aspects of cognition and behaviour, such as working memory, reasoning, reflective exploratory behaviour, and overall intelligence.
"But in the neocortex, a region involved in processing memories and language, and striatum, a region involved in making decisions, the researchers found stark differences."
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 25, 2017, 06:52:44 AM
Quote
including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striatum
Quote
The striatum is divided into ventral and dorsal subdivisions, based upon function and connections.
The ventral striatum is composed of the nucleus accumbens and the olfactory tubercle.[4][8] The nucleus accumbens is made up of the nucleus accumbens core and nucleus accumbens shell, which differ by neuron populations. The olfactory tubercle receives input from the olfactory bulb but has not been shown to play a role in processing smell.[8] In non-primate species, the islands of Calleja are included.[9] The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 25, 2017, 06:54:58 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
How humans became so smart: Huge dose of the 'feel-good' chemical dopamine may be responsible for our intelligence
Quote
It's a chemical known to play a key role in pleasure and reward, and now it seems that dopamine may also play a part in human intelligence.
A new study has found that the dopamine system evolved differently in humans than it did in great apes.
The researchers found that humans have a generous supply of dopamine in the brain regions that help us think and plan - which could explain why we are more intelligent than other primates.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6366/1027
Molecular and cellular reorganization of neural circuits in the human lineage
Quote
Abstract
To better understand the molecular and cellular differences in brain organization between human and nonhuman primates, we performed transcriptome sequencing of 16 regions of adult human, chimpanzee, and macaque brains. Integration with human single-cell transcriptomic data revealed global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories. We validated and further characterized the human specificity of genes enriched in distinct cell types through histological and functional analyses, including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex. Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
Quote
Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
It looks like there are "diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels".
As well as "including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex."

In other words it is not just the presence of additional dopamine.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 25, 2017, 07:18:23 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5113687/Is-smarter-chimps.html
How humans became so smart: Huge dose of the 'feel-good' chemical dopamine may be responsible for our intelligence
Quote
It's a chemical known to play a key role in pleasure and reward, and now it seems that dopamine may also play a part in human intelligence.
A new study has found that the dopamine system evolved differently in humans than it did in great apes.
The researchers found that humans have a generous supply of dopamine in the brain regions that help us think and plan - which could explain why we are more intelligent than other primates.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6366/1027
Molecular and cellular reorganization of neural circuits in the human lineage
Quote
Abstract
To better understand the molecular and cellular differences in brain organization between human and nonhuman primates, we performed transcriptome sequencing of 16 regions of adult human, chimpanzee, and macaque brains. Integration with human single-cell transcriptomic data revealed global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories. We validated and further characterized the human specificity of genes enriched in distinct cell types through histological and functional analyses, including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex. Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
Quote
Our integrated analysis of the generated data revealed diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels, with relevance for brain function and disease.
It looks like there are "diverse molecular and cellular features of the phylogenetic reorganization of the human brain across multiple levels".
As well as "including rare subpallial-derived interneurons expressing dopamine biosynthesis genes enriched in the human striatum and absent in the nonhuman African ape neocortex."


Not to mention "global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories".

And we know that because the authors "performed transcriptome sequencing of 16 regions of adult human, chimpanzee, and macaque brains".

And they did that because they wanted to "better understand the molecular and cellular differences in brain organization between human and nonhuman primates".

Gee, mindless source-quoting is fun!
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 25, 2017, 07:19:31 AM
https://www.dnalc.org/view/812-The-Dopamine-System.html
Quote
The dopamine system is basically a group of nerve cells, most of which originate in the midbrain. They send their axons to the forebrain, to different parts of the forebrain, where they plug into particular functions. Now, I would say, to simplify things, that there are three main branches of this forebrain dopamine system. There's a branch that goes all the way to the frontal cortex, where it modulates cognitive function and enhances the efficiency of certain forms of thinking and working memory. There is a very famous branch which goes to a structure called the striatum, which is implicated in Parkinson's disease. Here dopamine is involved in facilitating movements. So in Parkinson's disease, when you lose dopamine, your movements become rigid and rather reduced in number and amplitude. The third important branch of the dopamine system is that it goes to structures in the limbic system of the brain, which is the emotional center of the brain, including the nucleus accumbens, which has often been called the reward center. Many drugs of abuse exert their effects indirectly or sometimes directly through this reward dopamine system. In general, I think that the dopamine system may work as one thing. It may work to prepare you for thinking, for movement, and for reward. And that's its main function. It functions in anticipation of behavioral and cognitive output.

Will be leaving this shortly.
:wave:
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 25, 2017, 08:09:32 AM
Faid is underestimating himself. The quote he gave is certainly not mindless:
"global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories".
It is a good expression at the heart of this study.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 25, 2017, 08:21:33 AM
Faid is underestimating himself. The quote he gave is certainly not mindless:
"global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories".
It is a good expression at the heart of this study.
You misunderstand.
Faid did not say the quoted words were mindless.
He simply pointed out that  retyping them (or re-c&p-ing them) for no apparent reason was mindless.
The authors expressed themselves perfectly clearly.
A parrot repeating their words verbatim doesn't really add anything.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 25, 2017, 08:23:08 AM
Time to go. VoxRat and Faid have started their silly prattle. Not worth arguing about.
I have brought this study to people's attention. That is enough.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 25, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
I have brought this study to people's attention. That is enough.
Exactly.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 25, 2017, 12:01:20 PM
Faid is underestimating himself. The quote he gave is certainly not mindless:
"global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories".
It is a good expression at the heart of this study.
Aah, the old "pretending to misunderstand" shtick. Always a safe bet.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 25, 2017, 12:02:49 PM
Time to go. VoxRat and Faid have started their silly prattle. Not worth arguing about.
I have brought this study to people's attention. That is enough.
:wave:
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 08:04:35 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 27, 2017, 08:05:24 AM
I thought it was time to move on?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 08:08:43 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 08:18:17 AM
Thank heavens we have "Socrates" to quote standard bits of neuroanatomy for us, and then to requote himself quoting it. Otherwise I'm sure we would all be laboring under the delusion the brain was just a blob of undifferentiated mush.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 08:22:46 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]

Who/what is making the decisions?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 08:24:26 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Who/what is making the decisions?
You are not going to like the answer.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Testy Calibrate on November 27, 2017, 08:28:29 AM
Thank heavens we have "Socrates" to quote standard bits of neuroanatomy for us, and then to requote himself quoting it. Otherwise I'm sure we would all be laboring under the delusion the brain was just a blob of undifferentiated mush.
The headphone connected to the neck bone.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 08:39:57 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]

Who/what is making the decisions?
It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 08:57:01 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Testy Calibrate on November 27, 2017, 09:12:32 AM
Perhaps.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:22:31 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Photon on November 27, 2017, 09:23:36 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:25:54 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 09:27:08 AM
I just ran across what I thought was an insightful passage in a book* I'm reading**.
I don't have a hard copy, so I'm going to have to give the gist of it.

A question comes up between two characters, something like "what's it like to be dead?"
"I don't know; I'll be dead".
That (non)answer contains a lie, though, because being dead means there is no "I" to experience or not experience whatever it is.
It's a linguistic construction though that is difficult to avoid.
One of the characters speculates this linguistic/semantic artifact might underlie the notion of an "afterlife".

OK. Maybe it wasn't all that insightful.
But it probably beats the hell out of whatever "Socrates" is intimating on the question of what constitutes the entity we call "I".

* "The Year of the Flood" - book 2 of the MaddAddam trilogy by Margaret Atwood (http://margaretatwood.ca/maddaddam-trilogy/).
** actually having read to me, while commuting.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Photon on November 27, 2017, 09:29:23 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:35:11 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:36:33 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:37:14 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:41:35 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Photon on November 27, 2017, 09:43:24 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
How would I know?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:47:10 AM
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
How would I know?

Looks like you are definitely stuck.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:48:09 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
For example, in Dennet's book Consciousness Explained, does he deliver on the promise in the title?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:48:46 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
For example, in Dennet's book Consciousness Explained, does he deliver on the promise in the title?
In your opinion.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 09:49:05 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
I doubt that the Socra-Bot has been programmed with any information on Dennett's books.
It is programmed to deflect questions like this by "answering" with another question.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:50:39 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 09:52:57 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that is even possible.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:55:10 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:55:51 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
I doubt that the Socra-Bot has been programmed with any information on Dennett's books.
It is programmed to deflect questions like this by "answering" with another question.
:sadyes:
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:58:56 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.
Quote
British Dictionary definitions for stuck
stuck
/stʌk/
verb
1.
the past tense and past participle of stick2
adjective
2.
(informal) baffled or nonplussed
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.
Quote
British Dictionary definitions for stuck
stuck
/stʌk/
verb
1.
the past tense and past participle of stick2
adjective
2.
(informal) baffled or nonplussed
Do you find your own opinions baffling?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 10:53:01 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 11:00:00 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?
Yes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10471251 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10471251)
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 27, 2017, 11:06:22 AM
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 27, 2017, 11:08:50 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
Are you not stuck?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 11:12:07 AM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10471251
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12829283_Functional_Magnetic_Resonance_Imaging_of_Personality_Switches_in_a_Woman_with_Dissociative_Identity_Disorder
Quote
In addition, fMRI during volitionally induced personality switch showed changes in hippocampal and medial temporal activity correlated with the switch, suggesting that personality switch may result from changes in hippocampal and temporal function.

Who provided the volition? The automaton?
In fact it was the automaton. It was a stimulus-response.


Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: nesb on November 27, 2017, 11:24:17 AM
Look Sock. Introducing homunculi gets you nowhere, unless you're going for a reductio. The machine is quite capable of doing whatever you want to attribute to the ghost.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 27, 2017, 11:25:58 AM
nesb got sock's number.

Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 11:26:07 AM
Look Sock. Introducing homunculi gets you nowhere, unless you're going for a reductio. The machine is quite capable of doing whatever you want to attribute to the ghost.
You are an automaton (a machine). Is that what you are saying? But is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: madmardigan on November 27, 2017, 11:29:57 AM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?

You should donate your's so we can find out. among other things
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: nesb on November 27, 2017, 11:35:30 AM
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: nesb on November 27, 2017, 11:40:50 AM
I kinda addressed that with my spiritual guru joke. I don't know what you even mean, or why you would want to.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 11:42:55 AM
I kinda addressed that with my spiritual guru joke. I don't know what you even mean, or why you would want to.
If you are content to be an automaton, that is certainly not a problem for me.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: nesb on November 27, 2017, 11:47:00 AM
I don't know that I'm content to not have a unicorn, but I'm not going to strap a horn to a horse, and call it one. Also, to be sure, I'm not denying human agency.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 11:48:02 AM
Seems like whoever programmed the SocraBot is going all meta on us!
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 12:16:05 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Yes.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 12:45:38 PM
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPUfE1DqlSI
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 12:50:43 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
I will be leaving this shortly.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: BenTheBiased on November 27, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
Who cares?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: BenTheBiased on November 27, 2017, 12:55:09 PM
And I mean that as a serious question. Really, what is the point of announcing that you are planning to stop posting in a certain thread in the near future? Is that information supposed to benefit anyone in any way?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 01:06:18 PM
And I mean that as a serious question. Really, what is the point of announcing that you are planning to stop posting in a certain thread in the near future? Is that information supposed to benefit anyone in any way?
And what is the point of making such an announcement multiple times in the same thread, days apart, with a bunch of posts in between ?
Will be leaving this shortly.
I will be leaving this shortly.

:dunno:   I guess it's just how this particular automaton was programmed.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 01:18:50 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 01:33:10 PM
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
You would think that a sentient entity making such an observation would support it with illustrative quotes from the "folks here" that support said observation. Rather than just nestedly quoting itself.

Seems like another bug in the SocraBot's software. :(
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 02:08:06 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
You misunderstand.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 02:09:13 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
You misunderstand.
If that is how it seems to you.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 02:11:45 PM
Who cares?
He seems to have convinced himself that people will be upset if he leaves without warning.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: socrates1 on November 27, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Time to move on.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: VoxRat on November 27, 2017, 02:31:21 PM
Time to move on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUXRjfHoVl4
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: madmardigan on November 27, 2017, 02:33:30 PM
Who cares?
He seems to have convinced himself that people will be upset if he leaves without warning.
He seems to think if he announces he's leaving he isn't badgering when he finally does. But it's readily apparent he's badgering before he leaves.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: madmardigan on November 27, 2017, 02:33:44 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Time to move on.

go ahead.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: madmardigan on November 27, 2017, 02:34:00 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Time to move on.

go ahead.


what are you waiting for?
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: madmardigan on November 27, 2017, 02:34:15 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Time to move on.

go ahead.


what are you waiting for?


no one is stopping you.
Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Saunt Taunga on November 27, 2017, 02:51:11 PM
Who cares?
He seems to have convinced himself that people will be upset if he leaves without warning.
He seems to think if he announces he's leaving he isn't badgering when he finally does. But it's readily apparent he's badgering before he leaves.
In a sense he enters pre-badgered. He takes no position, there is nothing to abandon.
He pictures himself as an angelic being gently guiding people to truth with astute questions.
Stating his deep truths outright will make us reject them.

Title: Re: How humans became so smart
Post by: Faid on November 27, 2017, 02:54:47 PM
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.
It seems that folks here are split between those accepting that they are automatons and those who think they are not automatons.
Time to move on.
:wave: