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Topic: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony (Read 425 times) previous topic - next topic

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bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
new york focused article because i live in ny: http://gothamist.com/2017/07/19/schumer_gillibrand_co-sponsor_senat.php

analysis more broadly from the intercept with some hilarious responses from legislators: https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/

aclu letter: https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-letter-senate-opposing-israel-anti-boycott-act

Quote
The bill seeks to expand the Export Administration Act of 1979 and the Export-Import Bank Act of 1945 which, among other things, prohibit U.S. persons from complying with a foreign government's request to boycott a country friendly to the U.S. The bill would amend those laws to bar U.S. persons from supporting boycotts against Israel, including its settlements in the Palestinian Occupied Territories, conducted by international governmental organizations, such as the United Nations and the European Union. It would also broaden the law to include penalties for simply requesting information about such boycotts. Violations would be subject to a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $ 1 million and 20 years in prison. We take no position for or against the effort to boycott Israel or any foreign country, for that matter. However, we do assert that the government cannot, consistent with the First Amendment, punish U.S. persons based solely on their expressed political beliefs.

glad to see that so many democratic senators' #resistance to the government colluding with a foreign power for its benefit at the expense of americans' rights is so consistent

i gotta be honest, this sounds so bad and dumb on its face that i have to believe that it's not as bad as various online outlets are making it seem, but i don't think the aclu would take a stand on it for no good reason.

  • nesb
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #1
I wasn't planning on boycotting Israel, but I'd break that law openly if it were passed.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #2
just to get this out of the way before any derailing occurs: it doesn't actually matter if you think BDS is right. this law is shit.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #3
I don't think ACLU is exaggerating, but I'd say it's a safe bet most of them have no fucking clue what the bill says or that the bills it references for the punishment section have such harsh punishments. Because these people don't fucking read anything and rely on staffers to notice things.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #4
I used to think aipac had nra-like influence over us middle eastern policy.  the iran deal vote convinced me that either that had changed or I had been wrong in the first place.  if this garbage passes, I will be tempted to go back to my original position.

otoh, I assume Steve bannon and the alt right hate this bill with every fiber of their being, and I could almost see supporting it just to spite them.

eta: no, I'm not attempting the guilt-by-association bullshit of lumping opponents of this together with the alt-racists.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #5
lol, apparently several states have already passed laws criminalizing this over the last couple years.  wtf

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #6
I don't think ACLU is exaggerating, but I'd say it's a safe bet most of them have no fucking clue what the bill says or that the bills it references for the punishment section have such harsh punishments. Because these people don't fucking read anything and rely on staffers to notice things.
when you say "them" do you mean the alcu or senators?

  • ksen
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #7
oi vey

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #8
Does this mean I have to give up La Croix and use Soda Stream?

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #9
Terrible bill. BDS is dumb but this bill is fucking shit.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #10
i appreciate that teeth  :unsmith:

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #11
lol, apparently several states have already passed laws criminalizing this over the last couple years.  wtf
Source?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #12
Does this mean I have to give up La Croix and use Soda Stream?
My life would be significantly poorer if I had to give up la Croix.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #13
I googled "bds law" and half the hits were news articles about states passing anti-bds laws from the last year or two

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #14
i appreciate that teeth  :unsmith:

Eh. A lot of the rationale behind BDS is shit and a lot of it is thinly veiled antisemitism. But passing a law prohibiting free speech and consumer choice is not the way to oppose that. That should be the very basic threshold for whether a law is shit.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #15
Also my gut feeling is that these bills are designed to backfire and push Jews out of the political arena in general.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #16
what

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #17
I don't think ACLU is exaggerating, but I'd say it's a safe bet most of them have no fucking clue what the bill says or that the bills it references for the punishment section have such harsh punishments. Because these people don't fucking read anything and rely on staffers to notice things.
when you say "them" do you mean the alcu or senators?

Senators. The lol worthy one is the guy who co-authored the bill not knowing what's in it.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #18
what

There was a major shift in rhetoric WRT Israel-Palestine in the last 5-10 years that seems specifically designed to isolate Jews from the left and to attack liberal support for Jewish issues in general, apart from Israel. This seems to be part of it. Bills like this push a "Jews control the government" narrative in the left while failing judicially because they are transparently unconstitutional. Just serves to push Jews out of the left, which means pushing us out of politics in general.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #19
the most effective pro-israel lobby and chuck schumer are engineering an intentionally bad bill to push jews out of politics? is this what you're actually suggesting?

  • ksen
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #20
probably

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #21
the most effective pro-israel lobby and chuck schumer are engineering an intentionally bad bill to push jews out of politics? is this what you're actually suggesting?

I'm saying that some of the right-wing senators that have stuck their dicks in this thing want Jews to feel unsafe in the left. My guess is that this, like other anti-BDS legislation, originally started out limiting government funds going towards BDS, particularly in situations like university campuses or government contractors. The fascist stuff likely showed up later. But the Jews (Schumer and AIPAC) get stuck holding the bag.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #22
the actual authors of the bill and one of its strongest proponents are just hapless patsies getting played, what the fucking christ

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #23
Jesus Christ.

  • ksen
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #24

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #25
it's easier for teeth to believe that the pro-israel lobby is just getting taken for a ride in a right-wing antisemitic legislative false flag operation than to believe that they actually support this garbage

this is how the minds or certain people work

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #26
I'm sure jewish americans are even more freaked out by the mainstreaming of the alt-right than I am and can imagine being (and as well they should be, since the alt-right are basically pure evil and the tolerance of them does have obvious historical analogs).  I'm guessing that heightened worry is finding some expression through pro-israel activism, for which BDS seems to be a major battle front these days.

  • linus
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #27
Well, isn't the Netanyahu admin taking the line that BDS is as bad as terrorism? They're getting played right-wing anti-semites too...?

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #28
I'm sure jewish americans are even more freaked out by the mainstreaming of the alt-right than I am and can imagine being (and as well they should be, since the alt-right are basically pure evil and the tolerance of them does have obvious historical analogs).  I'm guessing that heightened worry is finding some expression through pro-israel activism, for which BDS seems to be a major battle front these days.

A lot of us have just shut up and some of us are exploring ways out of the US. I think you guys are underestimating how much message overlap there is between left and right antisemitism, amd how worried a lot of us are.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #29
feeling very #blessed that forums poster "teeming brown mass" is not my only point of contact with the jewish hivemind

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #30
Additionally, turning this into a knock-down dragout fight between Jews and the anti-imperialist left will lead to expensive and painful primary battles in key dem states, and 3-5% less turnout from reliable democrat-leaning demographics. This is a dangerous fight for the left to have and it does not benefit civil rights, here or in the Middle East.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #31
feeling very #blessed that forums poster "teeming brown mass" is not my only point of contact with the jewish hivemind

That's cool, but it might be useful to consider that it's a problem when you're filtering out Jewish opinions on what is or is not antisemitic based on whether they will self-castigate in order to back your political stance.

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #32
am i "filtering" anything out? am i indeed!

eta: actually read the rest of your post, semi decent troll, 5/10

  • ToThePoint
  • search & destroy
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #33
A thread about the jews.
Normally, victim mentality is an acquired personality trait.
But with jews, their basic DNA is soaked in victimism.
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

  • linus
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #34
Way to Nazi up the thread

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #35
am i "filtering" anything out? am i indeed!

eta: actually read the rest of your post, semi decent troll, 5/10

please do not speak over Jewish voices, self-crit or be banned

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #36
And, take back one shitty post to honor the Hebrew God whose thread this is.

  • MSG
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #37
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/weekend-australian-magazine/balcony-over-jerusalem-man-in-the-middle-in-israel/news-story/8c6953121322776bf231af4bc45b90e3

Quote
I told him I didn't understand his point. He explained: "People in Israel are committed to the state of Israel. Either they have moved here because they are committed to Israel or have remained here because they are. So when they read a story about Israeli soldiers and Palestinian children they read it in the context that whatever they read, it is not going to shake their commitment. But people in Australia may not have the same commitment. So when they read a story like this they may question their support for Israel. If I was sitting in Australia reading this I would think that Israeli soldiers were brutally treating Palestinian children." He paused. I said nothing. He continued. "A story like this may damage the view Australians have of Israel and they don't have the commitment to Israel to go along with that."

Quote
Why do the supporters of Israel want to ­prevent stories like this from spreading overseas? When we arrived we did not realise the prize that many political factions in the country coveted: formalising the occupation of the West Bank into official annexation and achieving Greater Israel.

Quote
As long as Israel insists on maintaining an occupation there will be tensions between journalists reflecting the values of their host countries and Israelis who want to maintain the occupation. The problem is that the media sometimes reports the reality: that it is relentlessly growing settlements, encouraged by financial incentives and a free security service, the IDF.

The only way for powerful groups to manage this, then, is to attack the media. As long as the media is seen as anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, the thinking goes, then Israel is not at fault.

We live at a time when more people are trying to shape reality than report it. The collapse of the traditional newspaper model means there are more people in public relations than journalism, and Israel operates one of the most effective public relations machines in the world. There's a Hebrew word for it: hasbara, or "propaganda". Hasbara is even the name of a government unit.
braying among the ruins

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #38
Ben Cardin responded to the ACLU.

https://www.cardin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Cardin-Portman%20response%20to%20ACLU%20Israel%20Anti-Boycott%20Act%207-20-17.pdf

Quote
For example, if the United Nations Human Rights Council requests information from an American company about its business dealings in Israel or Israeli-controlled territories as part of an effort to compile a blacklist of companies doing business with Israel, the bill would prohibit the company from responding.

"Prohibit from responding" :unsure:

  • MSG
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #39
braying among the ruins

  • MSG
Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #40
braying among the ruins

Re: bipartisan support for making organizing a boycott of israeli government a felony
Reply #41
maybe needs to be crossposted w/ kompromat thread, but according to zionists in congress the trump campaign getting instructions from netanyahu to kill res 2334 is good actually: https://www.facebook.com/LeeMZeldin/posts/10155392791807701