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Topic: Reds in America: a discussion (Read 1197 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from Talkfreethought about...

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Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #125

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #126
maybe I will join DSA one day
this might be your jam: https://dsa-lsc.org/

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #127
I can't see this thread title without playing this whole skit in my head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuR0YztoT0I
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #128
I picture this:


  • ksen
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #129

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #130
it's a bad situation to be sure. this isn't even the worst shit coming out of LA though. there are structural problems in LA that my chapter's well aware of and we're trying to correct for in our own bylaws.

tying anything to "cum town" is a stretch though, it's basically not anywhere near as relevant as chapo.
  • Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:45:27 AM by the idea of Harambe

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #131
Organised leftists have always had a woman problem.

Irt 'mainstream' leftists like Bernie Sanders and his following, women who complain are chided for disloyalty or pursuing identity politics or insisting on 'perfection'.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/10/13/16469216/bernie-sanders-womens-conference-speech

The answer from conservatives is 'no'. The answer from leftist men is 'wait your turn'. Or worse. This is not new.


Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #132
do you have any optimism that it might get better? i'm not saying you have to, i'm just curious. for me, i don't see what else i can do other than to make sure the movements and organizations i work with are thoroughly feminist to the extent that i can.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #133
do you have any optimism that it might get better? i'm not saying you have to, i'm just curious. for me, i don't see what else i can do other than to make sure the movements and organizations i work with are thoroughly feminist to the extent that i can.

Tbf, it has gotten better. When you consider the awkward and sometimes outright awful manner in which, for example, the SDS of the sixties treated the pioneers of the WLM within their ranks - with limited lip service, sexist cartoons, and on at least one occasion pelting the woman speaker with tomatos. And this infamous incident:

Quote
Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" (Hole, Judith, and Ellen Levine, Rebirth of Feminism, 1971, pg. 120).[25] After the meeting, a handful of women formed Seattle's first women's liberation group.[25]

Throughout the sixties and early seventies there was, imo, a pattern of leftist men happy to support with rhetoric leftist women who would sleep with them, but pretty reluctant to go the extra mile politically. I don't intend to sound bitter, because those were men who needed their consciousness' raised as much as women did, and who had a harder route to get there.

I think men, leftist men, do know better and in general do better, but there are still old boys like Sanders who are perfectly willing to throw women under the bus out of perceived expediency (on abortion rights, for example) - he could have been echoing George McGovern or Hubert Humphrey, both of whom engaged the WLM and gained women's support but caved on important issues at the last minute. You might get a better perspective by reading old WLM literature, to get a snapshot of the intellectual struggle for leftist women themselves, who agonised over civil rights and war resistance being more important than their own rights.

Yes, it's a lot better.

On a personal note, my Canadian art college in 1969-70 had 40% American draft dodger students, and a good third of the professors were young and from either New York or Kansas City art schools. Most of them at least verbally claimed a leftist philosophy. By fall of 1970 they were almost forced to include women as visiting artists and speakers, one of whom was Shulamith Firestone (Dialectics of Sex). Several professors surrounded her after her presentation and harangued her so badly that several students, including me, felt we had to rescue her and get her off campus into a less hostile environment. It was very eye-opening.

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #134
thanks for the detailed reply. going to do what i can to push back against that kind of shit.

as a side note: i don't really feel any huge allegiance to sanders, but i think it's worth noting in fairness that of the medicare for all proposals in congress, his is the only one that includes repealing the hyde amendment (i.e., the thing that prevents federal funds from going to pay for abortions). so he ain't all bad there.

eta: not disputing anything else re: heath mello. lotta people pointed out that it's dumb that he's getting special criticism for this when the dem party overall is happy to make abortion a secondary concern when strategically useful, but i want him to be better than the rest of the dems so it's still disappointing and he deserves to get dragged for that.
  • Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 01:57:22 PM by the idea of Harambe

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #135
That's always the thing, isn't it? We want our own to be better, and perhaps are disproportionately disappointed when they backslide or aren't 'perfect'.

Also my perspective is 'North American' but also more distinctly Canadian, so I have more freedom to nitpick from across the border.  :stuckup:

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #136
can't wait for medicare for all to pass in the US so that's one less thing you get to be smug about!!!

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #137
Haha good luck.

I mean that sincerely. The reduction in anxiety in the American population would transform your society practically overnight.

  • Brother Daniel
  • Global Moderator
  • predisposed to antagonism
Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #138
The reduction in anxiety
(in the general populace) is exactly what scares the plutocrats so badly (or so it often appears).

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #139
Wasn't sure where to put this, seemed most relevant here. An interesting look at DSA dynamics. ffuy, rednoise, thoughts?

https://medium.com/@dsarichmond/statement-on-the-dsa-funds-for-victims-of-terrorism-in-charlottesville-b9f05b6da98c

http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/12/charlottesville-200000-dsa-raised-171204165738796.html

Not a great article - it jumps between apparently unrelated points without connecting them coherently. Still, it is a long time to go without notification.

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #140
Wasn't sure where to put this, seemed most relevant here. An interesting look at DSA dynamics. ffuy, rednoise, thoughts?

https://medium.com/@dsarichmond/statement-on-the-dsa-funds-for-victims-of-terrorism-in-charlottesville-b9f05b6da98c

http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/12/charlottesville-200000-dsa-raised-171204165738796.html

Not a great article - it jumps between apparently unrelated points without connecting them coherently. Still, it is a long time to go without notification.

it's a pretty deceptive article in many ways tbh. like it makes it sound like there's this big mystery but whoops, no, eventually we find that they handed it over to a charitable disbursement organization because they had no capacity to deal with it themselves.

a ~thread~ on the subject:





eta: i actually totally did not notice your original post on this before, uncool, sorry if it seemed like i was ignoring it!
  • Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 05:21:19 AM by the idea of Harambe

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #141
i think national could have done a lot better with communicating the situation though.

i mean, "i think national could have done a lot better at *" is a very frequent observation in DSA. imv, all the best things about this organization come from the local chapters and the national organization is a useless source of embarrassments.

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #142
Chapo brings in $1M a year? lmao

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #143
the chapo guys are fucking loaded

they get a lot of hate for tossing around words like "retard" and being brocialists which is well deserved imo but I think their popularity is a direct result of liberals masquerading as leftists doing all these really weird PC callouts, like I never even heard of them until they were getting shit for saying the Democratic party should "bend the knee" because obviously that phrase wasn't a quote from a popular TV show and was instead insinuating women should perform oral sex.

pretty much I ignore any hate they get from liberals but listen when they get hate from leftists.

Re: Reds in America: a discussion
Reply #144
they've done some really gross shit that they could easily have not done without abandoning their core "abrasively dunking on dems" shtick.