I mean, fair enough. I'm not a communist. But I am disgusted by apathy in the face of people like Trump or Pence.
What I didn't care about was your mental diarrhea about Ayn Rand.
Quote from: rednoiseWhat I didn't care about was your mental diarrhea about Ayn Rand.I think that edit hit later than my last comment. My "mental diarrhea" about Ayn Rand, contained my main point, though. Which must be why you missed it.
To be sure, I don't necessarily disagree with what I imagine your ideal society is. If it would work. I just think we need to work towards a better society however we can, even it falls short of whatever ideal. You seem to agree. Or not?
Quote from: nesb on October 03, 2017, 10:22:22 PMQuote from: rednoiseWhat I didn't care about was your mental diarrhea about Ayn Rand.I think that edit hit later than my last comment. My "mental diarrhea" about Ayn Rand, contained my main point, though. Which must be why you missed it.If your main point was contained in that garbage then it wasn't clear. I don't have a vision for society like Rand did, so there's nothing to "implement" or "support." Revolutionary change doesn't happen according to a blueprint.
Quote from: Zeluvia on October 03, 2017, 07:23:51 AMIssue 1. Gerrymandering. No one is getting anywhere till that is fixed.I frankly don't give a shit about "fixing" a system to make it easier for the other political wing of capital to win more elections. So, no.
Issue 1. Gerrymandering. No one is getting anywhere till that is fixed.
The working class, by and large, doesn't give a shit about "the left." Communism -- the movement -- wasn't, until the last century, predicated upon soc/com organizations and their activity. It was predicated upon the fact that the working class itself is the only class capable of abolishing capitalism, and that socialists would help the working class in their goals for emancipation from capital, with the idea that furthering class struggle also gets us closer to emancipation.
To say it plainly, there is nothing for a communist -- even a communist worker -- to do without that general class movement. Which doesn't really exist, in this country, at the moment.
One of my issues with big tent parties and united-frontism, is that these are elements of the left who have decided on their ideology, and so have given little care to think about whether what they are preaching as socialism is actually socialism or just some modified form of capitalism that they're trying to windowdress as anticapitalism. It's like there's been a wholesale abandonment of socialist theory, and a genuine analysis of capitalism, especially in the last 20 years, but it certainly started a lot earlier (fair to say in the 2nd International.) Frankly, that's the conversation I'd rather have than about parties or what is to be done by leftists.
Can we get a mod to split out the political discussion, cuz it's really interesting, but not really appropro in this thread?
rednose what do you think of DSA
Quote from: the idea of Harambe on September 29, 2017, 10:20:38 AMrednose what do you think of DSAremarkably epic OP
it's one i want to have with the people i work with for sure. but we can talk about it here too if you want.
Quoteit's one i want to have with the people i work with for sure. but we can talk about it here too if you want.I suppose I'd start off asking you what your view of communism is? What does it mean to you to have communism, iow? You said before, putting industries under the democratic control of workers is a part of it, but I'm wondering what mechanisms are present when you think about it.
Alright, no "ideal". Fair enough. So you're seeking some particulars, which has something to do with the proletariat rising up and abolishing property, regardless of whether or not that results in an "ideal" state of affairs. Is that right?