Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • Talk Rational: Wow.  TR's regrettable habit of pointing and laughing at newbies is positively welcoming in comparison with such barrages of faux-righteous anger.   (re A+)

Topic: How economically desperate (Read 2130 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #25

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #26
my point with natural gas was not to suggest a new line of work for coal miners, it was to point out that coal mining jobs are going away no matter what.  coal simply cannot compete with the natural gas as an energy source.  gas is cheaper and will stay that way for a long time.  which is why trump's promise to bring back coal jobs is gibberish.  coal is dead.  done.  toast.  finished.  finito.  scrapping obama's climate regulations will bring back a few jobs for a little while, but it is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

and someone who chooses a coal mining career today is like someone wanting to be a vhs repairman.  I'm sorry, but it's just not a booming business these days.  yet trump is telling people vhs is gonna make a comeback, and people like this guy in the article believe him.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #27
did someone say nurses? in coal country?


  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #28
meant to add...

it's not a conservative argument to say that if your job ceases to exist, you should move or find a new line of work.  that is just common sense.  this idea that the left doesn't believe  anyone is responsible for anything or has to make an effort has always been a straw man.  it has never been what anyone actually thinks.

here are some examples of conservative arguments:

- i'm sorry to see you're unemployed.  obviously this social safety net is making you too lazy to find another job.  so let's go ahead and cut it.

- that's too bad that your income has been flat or falling for decades.  so let's cut rich people's taxes.  I swear this will eventually have some benefits for ordinary people like you

- man, it was really condescending of those coastal elites to put together all this public assistance for people like you who have fallen on hard times.  that was so snobby and elitist!  don't you just hate them??  what a bunch of assholes!  so, here let me help you get rid of that condescension.  you may have to give up some medicaid and food stamps, but it's a small price to pay to say fuck you to those elitists.  as you can see, we're the ones looking out for the little guy.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #29
Right, a real conservative argument would call for eliminating these free training programs and grants and leaving these people to fend for themselves.

But "conservative" now means that you'll bend over backwards to help white people but make all sorts of excuses as to why minorities can't get the same help. It's The Blacks' own fault because of their broken culture!

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #30
meant to add...

it's not a conservative argument to say that if your job ceases to exist, you should move or find a new line of work.  that is just common sense.  this idea that the left doesn't believe  anyone is responsible for anything or has to make an effort has always been a straw man.  it has never been what anyone actually thinks.
Which is why ty keeps spreading it.....

Quote
here are some examples of conservative arguments:

- i'm sorry to see you're unemployed.  obviously this social safety net is making you too lazy to find another job.  so let's go ahead and cut it.

- that's too bad that your income has been flat or falling for decades.  so let's cut rich people's taxes.  I swear this will eventually have some benefits for ordinary people like you

- man, it was really condescending of those coastal elites to put together all this public assistance for people like you who have fallen on hard times.  that was so snobby and elitist!  don't you just hate them??  what a bunch of assholes!  so, here let me help you get rid of that condescension.  you may have to give up some medicaid and food stamps, but it's a small price to pay to say fuck you to those elitists.  as you can see, we're the ones looking out for the little guy.
That last one's the best!  The very bestest.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #31
Also, there are way more than 5 places in the US to participate in the modern economy, and most of them aren't vast concrete jungles. I am living in one of them. It is only a few minutes from where the buffalo roam and seldom is heard a discouraging word.

Okay.  So what if there is 20, or 50? There's millions of out of work people who are tied to their communities through a variety of ways.  Is it reasonable to expect them to pick up and move?

Honestly, what's the alternative? It sucks, but I don't see how even FULL COMMUNISM NOW would change things. If communities were built around coal mining and we don't mine coal anymore, those communities are going to suffer, dry up and eventually fade away.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #32
Anyway I'm reminded of my SIL who chooses not to work and likely had her expenses paid for by Medicaid for the 3 kids she had. Because she wants to live the traditional, idyllic, country stay at home mom lifestyle. I'm glad she's had access to care that she needed but she's a full on Trumpeteer who would take that away from people like me. So I'm supposed to be reverent of this magical lifestyle she chooses to live when it's only been made possible by government programs she'd happily gut if a dirty immigrant like me needed help.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #33
I don't even think there is anything wrong with wanting to live a simple, rural, old-fashioned lifestyle.  if you want to do that and it makes you happy, good for you.  but I find it enormously frustrating to watch people struggle financially because they insist on working in a dead industry in a dead town and refuse every option to get out of that dead end situation, because they are too scared to leave their comfort zone.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #34
Idgaf about people living old fashioned rural lives but what I do gaf about is when those people demand their lifestyle and no one else's be subsidized.

  • ksen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #35
I bring up my parents because the demographic we're talking about is full of people who think we're lazy moochers who steal jobs. You shouldn't have to move thousands of miles to provide a future for your children, but if my parents were willing to make that sacrifice and take that risk, yeah, it's hard for me to feel heartbroken over people who won't take a free course to become a line technician or welder or carpenter because they have an emotional connection to a dying industry that no one on earth can possibly bring back. At some point, denial turns into delusion, and if you refuse all the help other people are offering you, at some point it's on your fucking shoulders.
Kind of reminds me of a story my pastor told during my church-going days.
-------------

There was this town that got flooded. The water was so high people had to get on their roof to avoid drowning. One guy up on his roof started praying, "God, please save me!" Soon after a boat came by the guy in boat yelled up for the roof guy to get in the boat.

The roof guy yelled back, "Go on and rescue someone else! I've been praying and God will rescue me!"

The water level started rising again and the roof guy had to clamber further up his roof to stay safe. He prayed again, "God, please save me!" Soon after that another boat came around offering bring roof guy to safety.

Again roof guy responded, "It's ok! Go save someone else! I've been praying and God will save me!"

By that time the water had rising to such a level that roof guy had to climb on top of his chimney to avoid drowning. Frantically roof guy prayed a third time, "God, please save me!"

A helicopter flew overhead and let down a ladder. "Come on up and we'll get you to safety!" the helicopter pilot said over a loudspeaker. Roof guy waved the helicopter away saying, "Go save someone that needs it! I've been praying and God will save me!"

At last the water rose to such a height that roof guy was swept away and drowned.

Roof guy got to heaven and when he was presented before God he asked, "God, I prayed for you to save me from the flood and you ignored my prayers. Why would you do that?"

God responded, "Hey, I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"
-----------

Thanks for reading my blog.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #36
 :rimshot:

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #37
actually a pretty good analogy.  especially if obama is god in this story.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #38
Anyway I'm reminded of my SIL who chooses not to work and likely had her expenses paid for by Medicaid for the 3 kids she had. Because she wants to live the traditional, idyllic, country stay at home mom lifestyle. I'm glad she's had access to care that she needed but she's a full on Trumpeteer who would take that away from people like me. So I'm supposed to be reverent of this magical lifestyle she chooses to live when it's only been made possible by government programs she'd happily gut if a dirty immigrant like me needed help.
here is the lol:

she is also voting to take it away from herself, because she is dumb

  • ksen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #39
actually a pretty good analogy.  especially if obama is god in this story.

Why wouldn't he be?

That reminds me. I had a dream once where God appeared as a very large black woman who gave me one the best hugs ever. I woke with tears in my eyes.

True story.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #40
Idgaf about people living old fashioned rural lives but what I do gaf about is when those people demand their lifestyle and no one else's be subsidized.
Exactly. And these same assholes keep cutting similar programs for veterans, while proclaiming how much they love them troops.  At least veterans' assistance makes a little more sense, but it's also more expensive.

  • ksen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #41
You had me at "veterans" but then lost me again at "expensive".

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #42
actually a pretty good analogy.  especially if obama is god in this story.

Why wouldn't he be?

That reminds me. I had a dream once where God appeared as a very large black woman who gave me one the best hugs ever. I woke with tears in my eyes.

True story.
I assume you're on board with Oprah 2020

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #43
You had me at "veterans" but then lost me again at "expensive".
Point being that some things are worth it. ;)

And this whole 'poor appalachia' schtick the gop keeps pushing is because there aren't that many people in terms of sheer numbers (as noted, Arby's employs more people nationwide than the fucking coal industry...), so it's easy to fund, and make it look like they're doing something, but it really absolves them of actually doing something.

  • ksen
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #44
actually a pretty good analogy.  especially if obama is god in this story.

Why wouldn't he be?

That reminds me. I had a dream once where God appeared as a very large black woman who gave me one the best hugs ever. I woke with tears in my eyes.

True story.
I assume you're on board with Oprah 2020

I don't think Oprah's that large anymore. But if she runs against Trump she's got my vote.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #45
actually a pretty good analogy.  especially if obama is god in this story.

Why wouldn't he be?

That reminds me. I had a dream once where God appeared as a very large black woman who gave me one the best hugs ever. I woke with tears in my eyes.

True story.

uh excuse me

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #46
My province used to depend on coal as a major industry. It died long before these guys started losing their jobs, because it's not high quality coal; only a small amount is still mined here. Lots of people migrated to other provinces. For the island I come from, it was especially hard, not much else there. By the 1970s, about two out of three young people had to leave for one to stay and have work. They finally got smart and began diversifying harder, especially in terms of tourism and local talent. It's quite a bit better there now.

Still, hordes of Nova Scotians, if they want high paying jobs, head to other provinces, some to live, most short term trade workers, like my husband. It's not a terrible fate. He gets paid well, good benefits, lots of time off, travel and lodging and meals mostly paid for.

There's no good reason many coal miners in the US couldn't move into related trades, travel to work, and come back to their homes between jobs. I know there are tons of trade work jobs in the US, probably magnitudes more than are available in Canada. Coal isn't the only resource that gets mined, smelted, refined, etc. Most modern mining skills aren't that hard to upgrade for other industries.

So I don't really understand their reluctance to even consider retraining, especially if they are under 50.

Re: How economically desperate
Reply #47
Because its their god-given right to have a high paying stable employer in their holler

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #48
Because its their god-given right to have a high paying stable employer in their holler

Maybe.

Otoh, maybe all they need is to see some of their peers do it and come home after a couple months with the biggest goddamned brand new Ford truck ever, y'know? Word of mouth is what started a lot of men and women from here on the road to Alberta and Ontario and so on. Couple years of training, some of it on the job getting paid - less for non-trades like driving gigantic trucks or roughnecking and so on.

  • MikeS
Re: How economically desperate
Reply #49
Also, there are way more than 5 places in the US to participate in the modern economy, and most of them aren't vast concrete jungles. I am living in one of them. It is only a few minutes from where the buffalo roam and seldom is heard a discouraging word.

Okay.  So what if there is 20, or 50? There's millions of out of work people who are tied to their communities through a variety of ways.  Is it reasonable to expect them to pick up and move?

Honestly, what's the alternative? It sucks, but I don't see how even FULL COMMUNISM NOW would change things. If communities were built around coal mining and we don't mine coal anymore, those communities are going to suffer, dry up and eventually fade away.
The west is littered with former mine towns and boom towns.  The largest difference is that a town out west without the mine has no other support structure available to maintain even a small fraction of the population.  Also, most of these towns were very young and you didn't have the centuries of settlement and family ties to the region.  Appalachia will drift to something else, to include agrarian rebirth in some regions, but the population will decline to a level commensurate with the industries that remain.