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Topic: How humans became so smart (Read 446 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #25
Faid is underestimating himself. The quote he gave is certainly not mindless:
"global, regional, and cell-type-specific species expression differences in genes representing distinct functional categories".
It is a good expression at the heart of this study.
Aah, the old "pretending to misunderstand" shtick. Always a safe bet.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #26
Time to go. VoxRat and Faid have started their silly prattle. Not worth arguing about.
I have brought this study to people's attention. That is enough.
:wave:
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #27
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #28
I thought it was time to move on?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #29
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #30
Thank heavens we have "Socrates" to quote standard bits of neuroanatomy for us, and then to requote himself quoting it. Otherwise I'm sure we would all be laboring under the delusion the brain was just a blob of undifferentiated mush.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #31
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]

Who/what is making the decisions?
  • Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 08:25:33 AM by socrates1

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #32
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Who/what is making the decisions?
You are not going to like the answer.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #33
Thank heavens we have "Socrates" to quote standard bits of neuroanatomy for us, and then to requote himself quoting it. Otherwise I'm sure we would all be laboring under the delusion the brain was just a blob of undifferentiated mush.
The headphone connected to the neck bone.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #34
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell).

Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]

Who/what is making the decisions?
It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #35
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #36
Perhaps.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #37
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #38
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #39
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #40
I just ran across what I thought was an insightful passage in a book* I'm reading**.
I don't have a hard copy, so I'm going to have to give the gist of it.

A question comes up between two characters, something like "what's it like to be dead?"
"I don't know; I'll be dead".
That (non)answer contains a lie, though, because being dead means there is no "I" to experience or not experience whatever it is.
It's a linguistic construction though that is difficult to avoid.
One of the characters speculates this linguistic/semantic artifact might underlie the notion of an "afterlife".

OK. Maybe it wasn't all that insightful.
But it probably beats the hell out of whatever "Socrates" is intimating on the question of what constitutes the entity we call "I".

* "The Year of the Flood" - book 2 of the MaddAddam trilogy by Margaret Atwood.
** actually having read to me, while commuting.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #41
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #42
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #43
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #44
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #45
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #46
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
How would I know?

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #47
Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Automatons with the illusion of free will still feel free, and interpret their actions as choices.
Are you saying that you are an automaton? If so, could you modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions?
How would I know?

Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
How would I know?

Looks like you are definitely stuck.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #48
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
For example, in Dennet's book Consciousness Explained, does he deliver on the promise in the title?

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #49
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
For example, in Dennet's book Consciousness Explained, does he deliver on the promise in the title?
In your opinion.