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  • TalkRational: Can we not be called a Republic of Freethought anymore. It's a bit embarassing.

Topic: How humans became so smart (Read 445 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #50
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
I doubt that the Socra-Bot has been programmed with any information on Dennett's books.
It is programmed to deflect questions like this by "answering" with another question.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #51
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #52
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that is even possible.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #53
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #54
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
I doubt that the Socra-Bot has been programmed with any information on Dennett's books.
It is programmed to deflect questions like this by "answering" with another question.
:sadyes:

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #55
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.
Quote
British Dictionary definitions for stuck
stuck
/stʌk/
verb
1.
the past tense and past participle of stick2
adjective
2.
(informal) baffled or nonplussed

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #56
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
You are the one unable to answer the question. I'd say you are the one who is stuck.
Quote
British Dictionary definitions for stuck
stuck
/stʌk/
verb
1.
the past tense and past participle of stick2
adjective
2.
(informal) baffled or nonplussed
Do you find your own opinions baffling?

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #57
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #58
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?
Yes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10471251

  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #59
Quote
The ventral striatum is associated with the limbic system and has been implicated as a vital part of the circuitry for decision making and reward-related behavior.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithalamus
Quote
The function of the epithalamus is to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. Some functions of its components include the secretion of melatonin and secretion of hormones from pituitary gland by the pineal gland (involved in circadian rhythms), and regulation of motor pathways and emotions.

The epithalamus comprises the habenular trigone, the pineal gland, and the habenular commissure. It is wired with the limbic system and basal ganglia.

A bit more on this:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-pineal-gland-a-link-to-our-third-eye/
Quote
From its unique perch between the brain's two hemispheres, the endocrine system's pineal gland secretes melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness. The tiny, pine cone - shaped gland is joined by the habenular trigone and the posterior commissure to make up the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain. The limbic system influences both the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system and seems to have involvement (which is not entirely well understood) with emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory and olfaction (our sense of smell). Just in this brief description, we get a glimpse of the inextricable relationships amongst our organs, systems and their functions.

Quote
the epithalamus, which serves to connect the limbic system to other parts of the brain
Quote
melatonin, a derivative of serotonin, which generally contributes to feelings of well-being and happiness
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #60
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
What is your opinion of Dennet's take on this?
Is this something that can be determined separate from your own experience?
Yes, I would prefer it to be as separate from my experience as possible. I am interested in your opinion, derived from your experience.
Then you are also stuck.
Are you not stuck?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #61
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10471251
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12829283_Functional_Magnetic_Resonance_Imaging_of_Personality_Switches_in_a_Woman_with_Dissociative_Identity_Disorder
Quote
In addition, fMRI during volitionally induced personality switch showed changes in hippocampal and medial temporal activity correlated with the switch, suggesting that personality switch may result from changes in hippocampal and temporal function.

Who provided the volition? The automaton?
In fact it was the automaton. It was a stimulus-response.


  • Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 11:22:23 AM by socrates1

  • nesb
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #62
Look Sock. Introducing homunculi gets you nowhere, unless you're going for a reductio. The machine is quite capable of doing whatever you want to attribute to the ghost.

  • Faid
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #63
nesb got sock's number.

Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #64
Look Sock. Introducing homunculi gets you nowhere, unless you're going for a reductio. The machine is quite capable of doing whatever you want to attribute to the ghost.
You are an automaton (a machine). Is that what you are saying? But is it possible to stop being an automaton?

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #65
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If it is possible to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions, is that something that could be determined by studying the brain?

You should donate your's so we can find out. among other things

  • nesb
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #66
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #67
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?

  • nesb
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #68
I kinda addressed that with my spiritual guru joke. I don't know what you even mean, or why you would want to.

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #69
I kinda addressed that with my spiritual guru joke. I don't know what you even mean, or why you would want to.
If you are content to be an automaton, that is certainly not a problem for me.

  • nesb
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #70
I don't know that I'm content to not have a unicorn, but I'm not going to strap a horn to a horse, and call it one. Also, to be sure, I'm not denying human agency.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #71
Seems like whoever programmed the SocraBot is going all meta on us!
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #72
Quote
Who/what is making the decisions?

It would seem that they have some rough idea of what is involved in making decisions but there is no mention of who is making the decisions.
Perhaps no one is making the decisions.
In that case perhaps we should try to modify things so that someone would arise within to start making the decisions. If that is even possible.
If that requires personal effort, then one is not likely to make that effort if one does not value it. Or if one thinks they already have it.

Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #73
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Yes.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: How humans became so smart
Reply #74
I pretty much have to consult my spiritual guru on matters of transcendance. As it is, we're neural nets (or neural nets are part of us), and a bit more involved than Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean pirates. Though, the basic mechanisms probably at play aren't that astoundingly hard to wrap your head around.
The basic mechanisms of the automaton are not the issue. Is it possible to stop being an automaton?
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPUfE1DqlSI
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins