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Topic: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal (Read 231 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • socrates1
Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Quote
Scientists have drawn on nearly 1,000 brain scans to confirm what many had surely concluded long ago: that stark differences exist in the wiring of male and female brains.

Maps of neural circuitry showed that on average women's brains were highly connected across the left and right hemispheres, in contrast to men's brains, where the connections were typically stronger between the front and back regions.

Ragini Verma, a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, said the greatest surprise was how much the findings supported old stereotypes, with men's brains apparently wired more for perception and co-ordinated actions, and women's for social skills and memory, making them better equipped for multitasking.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #1
Oh gawd not again.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an article entitled "women and men's brains wired the same, except for some slight differences in average connectivity in certain networks which may or may not be due to different life experiences"?

Time the Guardian had a female science editor.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 06:16:19 AM by Pingu
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #2
Oh, it's three years old.

Well, that's something, I guess.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #3
And here is Dorothy Bishop on the subject, bless her:

Quote
Prof Dorothy Bishop, Professor of Developmental Neuropsychology, University of Oxford, said:

"I think this study is potentially interesting but the suggested implications are in my opinion overhyped. For example, the description of effects as 'hardwired' is very misleading; brain connectivity can change with training and this is currently an active area of research, e.g. studies on brain plasticity.

"A previous large study examining similar things with 400 people did not find the same results as this study, which suggests that the current sample is either unusual, or that effects are very small at the individual level. The way the results are shown graphically makes them look dramatic, but the effects are likely to be very small - I suspect differences within each gender are considerably larger than differences between genders. In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect. I also think that it is going well beyond the data to draw conclusions about the functional significance of these effects when the authors don't report any data on behaviour in this sample."

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-on-gender-differences-in-brains/
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #4
Quote
Male and female brains showed few differences in connectivity up to the age of 13, but became more differentiated in 14- to 17-year-olds.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #5
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #6
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #7
Quote
Male and female brains showed few differences in connectivity up to the age of 13, but became more differentiated in 14- to 17-year-olds.

Yes.  This isn't very surprising, as puberty has an earlier onset in girls than boys, so you would expect to see gender differences during the developmental period in which the developmental trajectory of girls and boys is most divergent.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #8
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
This is from the quote you gave us from Dorothy Bishop, bless her. What does it mean? You posted it.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #9
What it means is what it says.
You need it rephrased?
We can't tell whether the differences reported are due to sex, or race (genetics) or some combination of the two.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #10
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
This is from the quote you gave us from Dorothy Bishop, bless her. What does it mean? You posted it.

It means that the study reported what proportion of each gender group identified as belonging to each of a range of ethnic groups, and the mean age of each gender group.  The study did not analyse the data by ethnic group, and as the proportions were slightly different in the two gender groups, it is possible that this may have accounted for some of the difference.  This is sometimes a problem in imaging studies as the brains images are "normalised" to a standard template.  Some templates, e.g. the MNI template is based on 152 brains from a largely caucasian sample which may not be a good fit for non-caucasian brains.  One version of it also has more male brains than female contributing to it so that is also a potential confound.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #11
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:13:16 AM by socrates1

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #12
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.

I don't think you need to be particularly "blessed" for the bog-standard observation that genetics contributes to biological phenotypes.  (And might - possibly  - do so in this case.)
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #13
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #14
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.

It can certainly account for difference in head shape and therefore brain shape.  This can be a problem when using a causasian brain template.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #15
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Now confirmed by Pingu.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #16
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.

No, she is not.

She is saying that it is a potential problem in the study that the gender groups weren't perfectly matched for ethnicity.

Not all heads are the same shape and size.  To compare brain images, therefore, they have to be "normalized" to a standard shape and size.  That process will be more accurate for someone whose brain shape and size is a good match to the template than for someone whose brain is a poor match.  If the template is made from mostly caucasian males, it will be a less good fit for women and a less good fit for non-caucasian participants.  Therefore you will get noisier data. 
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #17
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
In straining to validate your own racism, you are mischaracterizing what all three of us have said.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #18
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Now confirmed by Pingu.

Dorothy Bishop does NOT say that brain FUNCTION can differ by race.  Nor did I.

geez what is wrong with you?




I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #19
You folks have company (along with Dorthy Bishop, bless her).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

I have not been saying any of this. Just you folks.
Geez what is wrong with you folks?

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #20
I didn't even notice that socrates had started the OP.

I was just responding to the stupid Guardian headline.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #21
You folks are in good company (along with Dorthy Bishop, bless her).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

I have not been saying any of this. Just you folks.

SOCRATES I HAVE NOT SAID AND NOR HAS DOROTHY BISHOP THAT DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUPS HAVE DIFFERENT BRAIN FUNCTION.

HEAD SHAPE =/= BRAIN FUNCTION

Do you get it now?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #22
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #23
Troll on, trolling troll. Troll on!
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #24
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Neither I nor Dorothy Bishop wrote that article.

fuck off socrates
I have a Darwin-debased mind.