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Topic: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal (Read 228 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • socrates1
Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Quote
Scientists have drawn on nearly 1,000 brain scans to confirm what many had surely concluded long ago: that stark differences exist in the wiring of male and female brains.

Maps of neural circuitry showed that on average women's brains were highly connected across the left and right hemispheres, in contrast to men's brains, where the connections were typically stronger between the front and back regions.

Ragini Verma, a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, said the greatest surprise was how much the findings supported old stereotypes, with men's brains apparently wired more for perception and co-ordinated actions, and women's for social skills and memory, making them better equipped for multitasking.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #1
Oh gawd not again.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an article entitled "women and men's brains wired the same, except for some slight differences in average connectivity in certain networks which may or may not be due to different life experiences"?

Time the Guardian had a female science editor.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 06:16:19 AM by Pingu
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #2
Oh, it's three years old.

Well, that's something, I guess.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #3
And here is Dorothy Bishop on the subject, bless her:

Quote
Prof Dorothy Bishop, Professor of Developmental Neuropsychology, University of Oxford, said:

"I think this study is potentially interesting but the suggested implications are in my opinion overhyped. For example, the description of effects as 'hardwired' is very misleading; brain connectivity can change with training and this is currently an active area of research, e.g. studies on brain plasticity.

"A previous large study examining similar things with 400 people did not find the same results as this study, which suggests that the current sample is either unusual, or that effects are very small at the individual level. The way the results are shown graphically makes them look dramatic, but the effects are likely to be very small - I suspect differences within each gender are considerably larger than differences between genders. In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect. I also think that it is going well beyond the data to draw conclusions about the functional significance of these effects when the authors don't report any data on behaviour in this sample."

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-on-gender-differences-in-brains/
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #4
Quote
Male and female brains showed few differences in connectivity up to the age of 13, but became more differentiated in 14- to 17-year-olds.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #5
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #6
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #7
Quote
Male and female brains showed few differences in connectivity up to the age of 13, but became more differentiated in 14- to 17-year-olds.

Yes.  This isn't very surprising, as puberty has an earlier onset in girls than boys, so you would expect to see gender differences during the developmental period in which the developmental trajectory of girls and boys is most divergent.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #8
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
This is from the quote you gave us from Dorothy Bishop, bless her. What does it mean? You posted it.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #9
What it means is what it says.
You need it rephrased?
We can't tell whether the differences reported are due to sex, or race (genetics) or some combination of the two.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #10
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
This is from the quote you gave us from Dorothy Bishop, bless her. What does it mean? You posted it.

It means that the study reported what proportion of each gender group identified as belonging to each of a range of ethnic groups, and the mean age of each gender group.  The study did not analyse the data by ethnic group, and as the proportions were slightly different in the two gender groups, it is possible that this may have accounted for some of the difference.  This is sometimes a problem in imaging studies as the brains images are "normalised" to a standard template.  Some templates, e.g. the MNI template is based on 152 brains from a largely caucasian sample which may not be a good fit for non-caucasian brains.  One version of it also has more male brains than female contributing to it so that is also a potential confound.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #11
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:13:16 AM by socrates1

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #12
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.

I don't think you need to be particularly "blessed" for the bog-standard observation that genetics contributes to biological phenotypes.  (And might - possibly  - do so in this case.)
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #13
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #14
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.

It can certainly account for difference in head shape and therefore brain shape.  This can be a problem when using a causasian brain template.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #15
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Now confirmed by Pingu.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #16
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.

No, she is not.

She is saying that it is a potential problem in the study that the gender groups weren't perfectly matched for ethnicity.

Not all heads are the same shape and size.  To compare brain images, therefore, they have to be "normalized" to a standard shape and size.  That process will be more accurate for someone whose brain shape and size is a good match to the template than for someone whose brain is a poor match.  If the template is made from mostly caucasian males, it will be a less good fit for women and a less good fit for non-caucasian participants.  Therefore you will get noisier data. 
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #17
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
In straining to validate your own racism, you are mischaracterizing what all three of us have said.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #18
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Now confirmed by Pingu.

Dorothy Bishop does NOT say that brain FUNCTION can differ by race.  Nor did I.

geez what is wrong with you?




I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #19
You folks have company (along with Dorthy Bishop, bless her).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

I have not been saying any of this. Just you folks.
Geez what is wrong with you folks?

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #20
I didn't even notice that socrates had started the OP.

I was just responding to the stupid Guardian headline.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #21
You folks are in good company (along with Dorthy Bishop, bless her).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

I have not been saying any of this. Just you folks.

SOCRATES I HAVE NOT SAID AND NOR HAS DOROTHY BISHOP THAT DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUPS HAVE DIFFERENT BRAIN FUNCTION.

HEAD SHAPE =/= BRAIN FUNCTION

Do you get it now?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #22
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #23
Troll on, trolling troll. Troll on!
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #24
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Neither I nor Dorothy Bishop wrote that article.

fuck off socrates
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #25
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X


Rushton's work is generally dismissed as being agenda-driven and faulty.

Quote
Philippe Rushton, a psychology professor at the University of Western Ontario, has taken over the leadership of the Pioneer Fund following the recent death of its former administrator, Harry F. Weyher.

The Pioneer Fund was established in 1937 by the American white supremacist multimillionaire Wickliffe Draper and others who were supportive of Nazi race policies in Germany. The incorporation papers of the Fund states its policy to support the "procreation of the white colonial stock" and to finance research into "problems of race betterment" and "problems of heredity and eugenics in the human race."

One of the first actions of the Pioneer Fund was to pay for the distribution of a Nazi propaganda film, "Hereditary Defective" to high schools, colleges, and churches across the US. The film was produced by the Racial Political Office of the Nazi Party, and had been authorized directly by Adolf Hitler.

In the 1950s and 60s, the Fund aligned itself with white racist factions opposed to the desegregation of education. At the same time, Wickliffe Draper worked closely with the witch-hunting House Un-American Activities Committee, which was itself chaired by Pioneer Fund associate director, Francis E. Walter. In the Committee's interrogation of Paul Robeson, the famous African-American singer and Communist activist, Robeson asked Walter if he was trying to keep "decent people out of the country." Walter responded, "No, only your kind." Robeson said, "Colored people like myself." Walter again responded, "We are trying to make it easier to get rid of your kind, too."

Since the mid-1960s, Pioneer Fund money in the millions of dollars has bankrolled numerous racist and fascist psychologists - Rushton, Jensen, Cattell, Shuey, Eysenck, and many others - as well as William Shockley's scheme to pay African-Americans to have themselves "voluntarily" sterilized.

In the early 1970s, the Pioneer Fund paid the Foundation of Human Understanding to distribute hundreds of free copies of pamphlets by white supremacist psychologists Richard Herrnstein and Arthur Jensen to the registrars' offices of universities across the US in a blatant attempt to influence administration policies against the admittance of African-American students. This same tactic was employed in Canada in the late 1990s, when a Rushton pamphlet was mass-mailed to psychology and sociology professors across the country.

Rushton, referred to as "one of the most notorious race scientists in the world" by the Southern Poverty Law Center, has been a recipient of Pioneer Fund money for almost twenty years. In the year 2000 alone, tax records indicate that Rushton received $US 473,825 - approximately three-quarters of a million dollars in Canadian funds.

[source]

Quote
Rushton has advanced a specific evolutionary genetic rationale for how gene frequencies are differentiated between the `races' relative to intelligence. He claims that human racial differences result from natural selection for particular reproductive strategies in the various racial groups. Rushton's theory is based entirely on the concept of r- and K-selection, first explicitly outlined by MacArthur and Wilson in 1967. This article examines both the flaws in the general theory, and specifically Rushton's application of that same theory to human data. It concludes that neither Rushton's use of the theory nor the data that he has assembled could possibly test any meaningful hypotheses concerning human evolution and/or the distribution of genetic variation relating to reproductive strategies or `intelligence', however defined.

[source

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #26
From Pingu's reference:
Quote
In addition, we know very little about who the people were in the study. All we're told is what race they were, and this was significantly different for the males and females, so it's possible this also had an effect.

hmmm

Do you have a point?
He's predictably racist.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #27
Poor Pingu. Starting to swear.
Always seems to come down to that. People show their true colors.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #28
I know.  I wouldn't even have clicked on the thread if I'd noticed it was one of his.

But this "wired differently" thing really bugs me.  We are wired THE SAME.

There are probably SLIGHT differences in the MEAN connectivity between men and women in in certain networks, but that still doesn't tell us whether they are the RESULT or the CAUSE of different experiences in the two genders, which are, of course, vast.

And it doesn't matter anyway.  The means don't tell you how two individuals differ.  Small effect sizes are small.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #29
Poor Pingu. Starting to swear.
Always seems to come down to that. People show their true colors.

Yup.

My true colours are that I am not interested in discussing racial issues with a racist. 
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #30
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Folks here are getting really desperate. You brought up this topic - not me. Kind of silly to project racism on me.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #31
So race can account for differences. According to Dorothy Bishop, bless her.
And apparently according to Pingu and VoxRat.
Dorthy Bishop, bless her, is saying brain function can differ by race. And apparently also according to Pingu and VoxRat.

No, she is not.

She is saying that it is a potential problem in the study that the gender groups weren't perfectly matched for ethnicity.

Not all heads are the same shape and size.  To compare brain images, therefore, they have to be "normalized" to a standard shape and size.  That process will be more accurate for someone whose brain shape and size is a good match to the template than for someone whose brain is a poor match.  If the template is made from mostly caucasian males, it will be a less good fit for women and a less good fit for non-caucasian participants.  Therefore you will get noisier data. 

Note that Pingu brought up the subject of brain size (and race) - not me.

  • Pingu
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #32
YOU brought up the topic of different races having different brain function.

YOU were the one who said that Dorothy Bishop and I had both "confirmed" this.

YOU are lying through your racist teeth.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #33
Poor Pingu. Trying to back away from what he/she posted.
Note that Pingu brought up the subject of brain size (and race) - not me.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:31:59 AM by socrates1

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #34
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Folks here are getting really desperate. You brought up this topic - not me. Kind of silly to project racism on me.

Nothing silly about it. You are a racist. Why pretend you aren't? Own it. It's not as if we don't already know what kind of man you are. At least be honest about it.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #35
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Folks here are getting really desperate. You brought up this topic - not me. Kind of silly to project racism on me.

Nothing silly about it. You are a racist. Why pretend you aren't? Own it. It's not as if we don't already know what kind of man you are. At least be honest about it.
borealis - tired of threatening me privately?
Just noticed this has been moved to Alternate Reality section.
Do you not get tired of bullying?
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:58:31 AM by socrates1

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #36
Wow, so an addition to being a science-illliterate crackpot, Socrates is also sexist and racist. Good to know.

  • socrates1
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #37
Time to move on.

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #38
That definitely seems advisable.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #39
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Folks here are getting really desperate. You brought up this topic - not me. Kind of silly to project racism on me.

Nothing silly about it. You are a racist. Why pretend you aren't? Own it. It's not as if we don't already know what kind of man you are. At least be honest about it.
borealis - tired of threatening me privately?
Just noticed this has been moved to Alternate Reality section.
Do you not get tired of bullying?

Really? After this, when I have to deal with you regarding site moderation, I'll do it publicly rather than attempting to protect your privacy, if that's what you want.

FYI, I didn't move this thread, but I approve of the decision.

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #40
Well it's no surprise to me that Doug is a disgusting racist.

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #41
Wow all CAPS. Poor Pingu.
But you folks started down this path - not me.
And you have company:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028960200137X

Folks here are getting really desperate. You brought up this topic - not me. Kind of silly to project racism on me.

Nothing silly about it. You are a racist. Why pretend you aren't? Own it. It's not as if we don't already know what kind of man you are. At least be honest about it.
The possibility that he does not know he is a racist should not be discounted. He is not very smart.
He used to be quite infatuated with the Great Chain of Being, where each type of being has its place on a scale.
I suspect he thinks that since there is no malice in discerning some humans as lower than others on the scale it cannot be racist.
He considered "The San are the children of the human family" to be completely unproblematic. After all, what's wrong with children? Children are nice, he likes children.
  • Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 12:49:06 PM by Saunt Taunga

Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #42
Wow, so an addition to being a science-illliterate crackpot, Socrates is also sexist and racist. Good to know.
He's  been on mad meds for too long.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Doobie Keebler
  • Ridiculous Callipygous
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #43
Wow, so an addition to being a science-illliterate crackpot, Socrates is also sexist and racist. Good to know.
He's  been on mad meds for too long.

"I'm over 70 and have never seen such , arrogance, incompetence and Ill -intentions as this President and his aids."    The Dotard     (posted 12 days after his 68th birthday)

  • Faid
Re: Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal
Reply #44
Looks like Doug finally dropped his 'scholarly' act, and dedicated himself to being a full-time troll.

Oh well. Perhaps that's an improvement.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.