Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • TalkRational: look, you all have your post-atheist community here, and enjoy it. That's great.

Topic: Thread for self righteous men (Read 6556 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • Faid
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #325
Unless you don't LIKE the results of their past hard work. Then they're comparable to geocentricists.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #326
The reason I don't do it is not because "I suck at science"  (perhaps I do, but that's a separate question) ... the reason I don't is because I accept that OTHERS have done that hard work already so I don't have to.  I can simply stand on their shoulders and reap the benefits.  (Sort of like I don't have to do experiments to prove the superiority of cordless drills over corded drills for most routine jobs ... others have done that hard work ... I can stand on their shoulders and simply buy one and use it)
One of the key concepts in the modern methodology of science is reproducibility.
Different people have found different results, using different measures, with different grazing practices, in different places under different circumstances.
NO ONE, so far as I am aware, has determined ANYTHING about the effect of dragging a couple of goats over your particular terrain. ASSUMING that the only variable that matters is "animal density" and "moving" (that two goats confined to a 50 square foot cage is indistinguishable from 200 cattle confined to 5000 square feet) would be an example of "sucking at science".
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #327
Why don't you try both and see which one produces the better pasture?  By some measure of "better"?
People already have.  I'm standing on their shoulders.  That's what "progress" is all about.

I realize that you don't accept that.  But that's your problem, not mine.  I've accepted it as fact and moved on.  I'm already reaping some of the rewards, such as healthier animals.  I will reap more rewards in the future.


No.  You are proceeding without what anyone would call evidence.  You have a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the superiority of your novel method over "traditional" methods.  You have a small operation that doesn't take up your full acreage.  Your acreage is pretty homogeneous - same starting pasture, same climate, same eco-system, same weather even.

Perfect for running the two systems in parallel and seeing which produces "better" soil (and more milk, rabbits, eggs etc) with everything equal except for one lot of animals being dragged over the pasture in a cage, and the other lot free to eat what they want when they want it.

If you didn't suck at science, that's what you'd do. But you do suck at science, so you won't.
The reason I don't do it is not because "I suck at science"  (perhaps I do, but that's a separate question)

True.  That you don't do it is one of the many reasons you suck at science.

... the reason I don't is because I accept that OTHERS have done that hard work already so I don't have to. 

On what evidence?

Cite a single comparison study in which two adjacent pieces land were compared, one with "traditional" methods of raising goats, chickens and rabbits, and your novel method.

Or even, for that matter, a straight side-by-side comparison of ANY HMG method with a "traditional" method.  Go on.

I can simply stand on their shoulders and reap the benefits.  (Sort of like I don't have to do experiments to prove the superiority of cordless drills over corded drills for most routine jobs ... others have done that hard work ... I can stand on their shoulders and simply buy one and use it)

Why not go out and buy a goat cage then?  If it's already been developed and tested.

Or cite the testing studies.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #328
I'll take my chances.  In part because I'm reaping some benefits NOW.  (Like better goat health - see other thread)

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #329
Correction: It's not so much that you would hate it if your pasture could be improved some other way...It's that you would never know. Because you are incapable of ever learning things that you don't want to be true.
wrong again. I learn new things that I don't want to be true almost every day. Most recently I learned that the top member of my new RoboPen needs to be a one by four instead of a 1 x 2.  I wanted it to be true that 1 x 2 would suffice. Yes I learned the hard way  because it broke.
Yes, this is the one exception to the rule: When you fuck up in a way that hits you over the head so clearly that you have no choice but to acknowledge it. See also: wrong size tarp, dead piglet. You are still as learning-resistant as it is practically possible for a person to be.
you really are an idiot and I'm not sure why.
Well, pointing out an example of me being an idiot would be the first step towards explaining why. No, pointing out that there is an exception to a general rule I observed is not a demonstration of me being an idiot.
Perhaps it's brain on Darwinism.
The first step towards seeing if this is true would be learning what Darwinism is. Unfortunately, you are incapable of doing that.


Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #330
People. No. This thread is about Hawkins' enthusiasm for statutory rape. Don't sidetrack into how much he sucks at science, or his fucking stupid farming crackpottery. Stick to the pro-rape thing. It matters.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #331
People long ago determined that the earth is the center of the solar system.
Since then, others have stood on their shoulders, taking that into account as they delve into further questions about the natural world
Yes, the general progress of science is towards being less wrong. Do you think there's going to be a breakthrough one day that proves the people who thought the earth was the center of the solar system were right after all? No? Then why do you think there will be one for young-earthers? They were proved wrong long, long ago. Just like geocentrists.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #332
People. No. This thread is about Hawkins' enthusiasm for statutory rape. Don't sidetrack into how much he sucks at science, or his fucking stupid farming crackpottery. Stick to the pro-rape thing. It matters.
Wow another liar? I'm so surprised!

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #333
 but yes... This thread is supposed to be about the morality... Or lack thereof of a 74-year-old man in the Masai society taking a 15-year-old bride.
  • Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:46:27 AM by Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #334
People. No. This thread is about Hawkins' enthusiasm for statutory rape. Don't sidetrack into how much he sucks at science, or his fucking stupid farming crackpottery. Stick to the pro-rape thing. It matters.
Good point.

I don't suppose it's worth any mod's time to clean up the thread, but we should not get distracted.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #335
 and contrary to people who like to lie and cheat and spin their way through life... Like MartinM apparently...  i'm in favor of truth. And justice and equality. I am NOT in favor of statutory rape which is defined  in different ways in different places of the world.

 what's under discussion here is "is this incident about this Masai man and young bride a case of statutory rape?". or not?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #336
Yes. Let's be clear.
Hawkins was woo-hooing an instance that would be called 'statutory rape' in most of the U.S. (not sure about Alabama).
And he's in favor of justice and equality.
Where, for instance, every wealthy septuagenarian has equal access to a pubescent bride with no say in the matter. If that's the culture.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #337
No, what is under discussion is "If you are presented with a situation where a 15-year old has been bartered away by her father in exchange for money and cows to be the wife of a 70-year old and your response is "woohoo", does that make you an asshole?"

The answer to that is yes.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #338
Yes. The age of consent in Kenya and Tanzania is 18.

And other than that specific study about transmission of HIV there aren't any benefits of male circumcision.
Why do I bother?

  • Faid
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #339
but yes... This thread is supposed to be about the morality... Or lack thereof of a 74-year-old man in the Masai society taking a 15-year-old bride.
Cool!
Not correct.

MY view is that girls should not marry until their 20s.

My (possibly erroneous) view of the implications of an evolutionist view ... biology dictates the proper age.

Anyone find it funny / depressing that Martin cannot read?
I actually think that the female's autonomy is highly relevant ... it appears to me that the 15 year old bride under discussion definitely consented to the old man's marriage proposal. Any other view is speculation ... not based on evidence from the actual eyewitness report.

So, your ACTUAL "view" is that women should not marry until their 20s, UNLESS they consent (or "appear" to consent) to the marriage?

If not, what is the point of pointing out the girl "appeared" to consent? How does that change "[YOUR] view"?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #340
and contrary to people who like to lie and cheat and spin their way through life... Like MartinM apparently...  i'm in favor of truth. And justice and equality. I am NOT in favor of statutory rape which is defined  in different ways in different places of the world.

 what's under discussion here is "is this incident about this Masai man and young bride a case of statutory rape?". or not?

Do you understand why we have statutory rape laws? Do you understand the moral underpinnings of these laws?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #341
And other than that specific study about transmission of HIV there aren't any benefits of male circumcision.
A, um, er, friend of a friend of mine tells me it affects the probability of oral sex.
But that's an N=1, so....
never mind
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #342
Nope.  Your suckage at science is showing.

Again.

The honest, careful scientist would admit that my "woo hoo" comment...

1)  was perfectly in keeping with the spirit of the article written by a woman  Who was an eyewitness. In fact, she made a similar comment herself... "Attaboy"

2)  was an honest statement made by man subject to the laws of biology.  other men here are trying to pretend that they are somehow not subject to these biological laws. Or something.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #343
and contrary to people who like to lie and cheat and spin their way through life... Like MartinM apparently...  i'm in favor of truth. And justice and equality. I am NOT in favor of statutory rape which is defined  in different ways in different places of the world.

 what's under discussion here is "is this incident about this Masai man and young bride a case of statutory rape?". or not?

Do you understand why we have statutory rape laws? Do you understand the moral underpinnings of these laws?
yes of course, but I also know that I don't know much about Masai society. And I'm pretty sure that you don't know as much as you think you do.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #344
Nope.  Your suckage at science is showing.

Again.

The honest, careful scientist would admit that my "woo hoo" comment...

1)  was perfectly in keeping with the spirit of the article written by a woman  Who was an eyewitness. In fact, she made a similar comment herself... "Attaboy"
SFW?
She doesn't get a pass on that, either.
Quote
2)  was an honest statement made by man subject to the laws of biology.  other men here are trying to pretend that they are somehow not subject to these biological laws. Or something.
Yeah. Something.
Something you seem incapable of getting.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #345
 I also know that feminism has been a good movement in certain ways because it has reduced oppression of women. But it has been bad in other ways and the pendulum could swing too far and really cause a lot of problems.

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #346
"She doesn't get a pass on that, either."

 of course she doesn't. Because you are that would be dictator that would force your views on everyone.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #347
If - as DaveGodrey says - the age of consent in Tanzania is 18, then this IS a case of statutory rape.
It may be the local, Maasai, culture.
But it still violates the law of the land.
So is statutory rape OK in places in the US where the local culture is FLDS, or other fundamentalist religions, where child marriage is "traditional"?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #348
"She doesn't get a pass on that, either."

 of course she doesn't. Because you are that would be dictator that would force your views on everyone.
Should women have the right to get an abortion, dave?

:icare:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Thread for self righteous men
Reply #349
If - as DaveGodrey says - the age of consent in Tanzania is 18, then this IS a case of statutory rape.
It may be the local, Maasai, culture.
But it still violates the law of the land.
So is statutory rape OK in places in the US where the local culture is FLDS, or other fundamentalist religions, where child marriage is "traditional"?
It's a good question.