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Topic: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World) (Read 130756 times) previous topic - next topic

VoxRat, Sea Star, Dave Hawkins, Alfonso Bivouac, Testy Calibrate, superhoop and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28725
 I think you are smart enough to read the footnotes and find it yourself if you really want to see it.

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28726
Pingu misrepresented my view. But maybe she didn't do it intentionally so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

 as for photons teeth, I can only guess why they were "bad" when he was young. I suppose by "bad" he means that he got a lot of cavities.  my best guess is that he is not remembering correctly what his diet was like as a kid.  if his diet was truly what he says it was, then I can only guess that the animals on his farm were raised on depleted ground, which Weston Price spends quite a bit of time talking about in his book.

Yes, a lot of cavities.
I'm not remembering the diet incorrectly, ffs.
The land was not depleted, ffs,

Why will you say anything, make up any lie or outlandish guess to rescue your preconceived ideas instead of actually examining the evidence?  You have this same issue on every topic that you "investigate".  You decide what you want to be true, franoogle nuggets for support, and then assassinate the character and question the motives of anyone who shows evidence that you are wrong.

You are broken, Dave.


  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28727
I think you are smart enough to read the footnotes and find it yourself if you really want to see it.
Right. Finding an article in a 1931 magazine should be no trouble!
Meanwhile, you could just do what Hawkins does:
take Price's word for it!
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28728
Truth to tell... I don't remember if Photon himself has a theory as to why his dental health was so poor growing up.
Photon? Are you there?
Bad genetics?
Lack of professional attention?
Inadequate routine hygiene?
Sucrose in the diet (aside from its overall the "Price-likeness")?
Other?
Genetics isn't a likely factor, looking at my family who lived in cities, for example.
We were dirt poor, but my parents did take me to the dentist.  It was a hardship, but I had fillings, extractions, root canals.
I think the lack of fluoride in our well drinking water, combined with poor brushing habits when I was young both contributed.
We had little sugar in our diet, and basically followed Dave's recommended diet (with copious added vegetables).  I was a national-level athlete in my youth, so all other indications were of good health (no nutritional deficiencies of any kind).

I would think that Dave would find it rather amazing that now, living in the city, my diet is nowhere near as good as it was on the farm, I now have way too many carbs and sugars and fats in my diet, but I also brush with a fluoride toothpaste and floss regularly, and have regular cleanings.  My oral health right now is probably the highest it has ever been, I think I've had one cavity in the last 15 years.

Maybe the dental associations know what they are talking about when they say if you use adequate brushing and cleaning techniques on your teeth, as long as you don't have dietary deficiencies, you can achieve excellent oral health?  Because the Price diet combined with limited brushing was a disaster.


  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28729
But Dave, although he claims to be open to the "possibility" that Price is wrong, can "only" think that you somehow must be mistaken about your childhood diet.

No other explanation than diet appears to be "possible" to Dave.   Which means his claim that he is open to the possibility that Price might be wrong is a lie.  Or possibly, to be generous, a delusion.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • JonF
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28730
I think you are smart enough to read the footnotes and find it yourself if you really want to see it.
Your claim, your responsibility to support it.

Time Magazine, 1938. Long, long ago and not a scientific journal.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28731
Pingu misrepresented my view. But maybe she didn't do it intentionally so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

 as for photons teeth, I can only guess why they were "bad" when he was young. I suppose by "bad" he means that he got a lot of cavities.  my best guess is that he is not remembering correctly what his diet was like as a kid.  if his diet was truly what he says it was, then I can only guess that the animals on his farm were raised on depleted ground, which Weston Price spends quite a bit of time talking about in his book.

Yes, a lot of cavities.
I'm not remembering the diet incorrectly, ffs.
The land was not depleted, ffs,


I see.  And you know this how?  Did your dad test your pasture grasses for mineral content?  As Price did?
Quote
In a recent magazine article, I have presented data (1) comparing the mineral content of different pasture grasses, and relating these to deficiencies in cattle. Unfortunately, space does not permit reviewing these data here in detail. They show that calcium varied from 0.17 per cent for a dry pasture grass in Arizona to 1.9 per cent in a Pennsylvania pasturage plant, to 2 per cent in a British Columbia pasturage plant, a range of over ten fold. Similarly, phosphorus was shown to vary from 0.03 per cent to 1.8 per cent, a range of sixty fold. Neither pasture animals nor human beings can eat a sufficient amount of low mineral plant food to provide the total mineral requirements of ordinary metabolism. In cases of overload, such as pregnancy and lactation in adults, and rapid growth in children, the demand is increased greatly. For example, a high-milk-production cow from southern Texas on a certain low mineral pasture will run behind her normal requirements about 60 grams of phosphorus and 160 grams of potassium per day. In that district large numbers of cattle were unable at the time to maintain their own bodies, let alone reproduce or provide milk. Many cattle in the district developed loin disease. It was found that moving them to another plot of ground where the soil was not depleted provided recovery.

Here's Reference (1) ...

PRICE, W. A. New light on the control of dental caries and the degenerative diseases. J. Am. Dent. Assn., 18:1889, 1931.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28732
Anyone want to get the above article and post it in the drop box?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048636431870033

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28733
Here's Reference (1) ...

PRICE, W. A. New light on the control of dental caries and the degenerative diseases. J. Am. Dent. Assn., 18:1889, 1931.
Have you read it?

I'm not terribly surprised that "dry pasture grass in Arizona" has a low mineral content relative to grass growing in more verdant climes. Like British Columbia (not too far from Photon's childhood home).  The only reason you have to assume it was of low mineral content is your circular reasoning that poor dental health is due solely to poor nutrition. No matter what the article (that you haven't read) reports.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28734
Here's Reference (1) ...

PRICE, W. A. New light on the control of dental caries and the degenerative diseases. J. Am. Dent. Assn., 18:1889, 1931.
Have you read it?

I'm not terribly surprised that "dry pasture grass in Arizona" has a low mineral content relative to grass growing in more verdant climes. Like British Columbia (not too far from Photon's childhood home).  The only reason you have to assume it was of low mineral content is your circular reasoning that poor dental health is due solely to poor nutrition. No matter what the article (that you haven't read) reports.
No it's not my "circular reasoning" and I'm surprised that you being a scientist would think that.  The reason for me is "because Price said so" and he is supposedly a legitimate authority on the topic having done testing work.  Now you can say "He's wrong blah blah blah" and I'm sure you will because that's your chosen orthodoxy ... but of course if you want your rebuttal to have any weight you should back it with info from some other (better) authority.  No I haven't read this article.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28735
And here's a Facebook post I just made this morning related to this ...

Quote
Yes, American farming is in big trouble ... has been for decades but I myself didn't realize it until a few years ago ... there IS a solution, I believe, but it's going to require huge mental shifts ... an entirely new way of thinking ... I have finally made the shift myself, but the key to saving farming is to inspire others to make the shift as well ... What "huge mental shift" am I talking about? Well here's a big one ... LAND ... who does it belong to? And what should we do with it? Take my little 10 acres for example ... back before the European conquest, my little 10 acres was used by people we now call Native Americans ... for what I don't know, but perhaps buffalo roamed it. The United States got involved in my little 10 acres in 1803 purchasing it from France for about 47 cents an acre (2016 dollars). I bought it in about 2004 for about $4000 an acre (a problem we can talk about another day). Prior to me purchasing it, the guy I purchased it from used it for row crop farming - corn and soybeans - one of the major types of farming described above that is causing so many suicides. Why was he farming in this way? Well because "it's what's done" that's why. But as we learned from Cinderella recently, "just because it's what's done doesn't mean it's what should be done" right? And I contend that corn and soybean farming is NOT what should be done for a multitude of reasons too numerous to list here. Anyway, in my opinion, what *should* be done with land like mine is *feed people*. Directly. Without banks. Without Monsanto. Without John Deere. Without all that stuff that enslaves farmers and pushes them to commit suicide. That is exactly what I am attempting to do on my little 10 acres. I'm having some success and I'm getting better at it each year. Who'll join me?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/why-are-americas-farmers-killing-themselves-in-record-numbers
So who will you be letting take the unproductive part of your land?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28736
No it's not my "circular reasoning" and I'm surprised that you being a scientist would think that
Why? You have given no argument to rebut it.
Quote
The reason for me is "because Price said so" and he is supposedly a legitimate authority on the topic
Who's doing the "supposing" here?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28737
Continuing in Price ch. 20 ... Pingu has written about the following problem numerous times, thinking I don't understand the problem .. or something ...
Quote
Sir Arnold Theiler, who spent a quarter of a decade studying the problems of nutritional deficiency diseases among pasture animals in South Africa, has discussed at length the reduction of phosphorus in available quantities for plant development as constituting, by far, the most important mineral deficiency. He reported data obtained from many countries through the world, indicating that the deterioration of cattle and sheep can be directly traced to an inadequate amount of phosphorus in the soil. He states, in discussing the relation of this problem to the conditions as they obtain in Australia, that: (3)

 
Quote
Amongst the Australian data the figures showing depletion of phosphorus as a result of sale of products off the farm without adequate replacement by manuring, are interesting. Thus Richardson estimates that it would take two million tons of superphosphate to replace the phosphorus removed in the form of milk, mutton and wool. In the "ranching stage" of the development of a country the fact is often forgotten that the balance of Nature is frequently disturbed to the detriment of generations to come.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28738
Keep reading ... good stuff here ...
Quote
In Chapter 3, I discussed data obtained during two summers in the Loetschental and other Swiss valleys. The Loetschental Valley has been isolated from contact with surrounding civilizations by its unique physical environment. For twelve hundred years during which time a written history of the valley has been kept, the people have maintained a high level of physical excellence providing practically all their food, shelter and clothing from the products raised in the valley. Cattle and goats provided milk, milk products and meat. The stock was carefully sheltered during the inclement weather and great care was used to carry back to the soil all of the enrichment. This, of course, is a process that is efficiently carried out in many parts of the world today. In this manner extensive depletion of the minerals required for food for animals and human beings may be prevented. Their practice is in striking contrast to that in many of the agricultural districts of the United States in which the minerals are systematically shipped from the land to the cities, there to be dissipated to the ocean through the sewerage system.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28739
No it's not my "circular reasoning" and I'm surprised that you being a scientist would think that
Why? You have given no argument to rebut it.
Quote
The reason for me is "because Price said so" and he is supposedly a legitimate authority on the topic
Who's doing the "supposing" here?
You're a complete moron.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28740
Continuing in Price ch. 20 ... Pingu has written about the following problem numerous times, thinking I don't understand the problem .. or something ...
"or something" ?

You haven't understood what she was telling you?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28741
No it's not my "circular reasoning" and I'm surprised that you being a scientist would think that
Why? You have given no argument to rebut it.
Quote
The reason for me is "because Price said so" and he is supposedly a legitimate authority on the topic
Who's doing the "supposing" here?
You're a complete moron.
::)   no u

Predictable content-free Hawkins response.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28742
Here's Reference (1) ...

PRICE, W. A. New light on the control of dental caries and the degenerative diseases. J. Am. Dent. Assn., 18:1889, 1931.
Have you read it?

I'm not terribly surprised that "dry pasture grass in Arizona" has a low mineral content relative to grass growing in more verdant climes. Like British Columbia (not too far from Photon's childhood home).  The only reason you have to assume it was of low mineral content is your circular reasoning that poor dental health is due solely to poor nutrition. No matter what the article (that you haven't read) reports.
No it's not my "circular reasoning" and I'm surprised that you being a scientist would think that. 

Well, if you are surprised, that's because you suck at science.  Any scientist, or for that matter anyone with a grounding in basic logic,  would know that "your teeth are bad because your diet lacked something, so if your teeth are bad your diet must have lacked something" is fallacious - it's a perfect example of petitio principii which is Reverse Swahili Pig Latin for assuming your conclusion.

You are concluding that Photon's farm must have been "depleted" BECAUSE you are NOT willing to grant the POSSIBILITY that your premise that dental disease is caused by poor diet may be false.

The reason for me is "because Price said so" and he is supposedly a legitimate authority on the topic having done testing work. 

"Supposed" by whom?  And by WHAT "testing work"?  You couldn't even be bothered to download his "testing work" when I gave you a free link.  And plenty of people have done lots of "testing work" since that shows that while nutrition is ONE factor in dental health (there are certain key nutrients that are essential for healthy teeth and bones) the PRIMARY dietary cause of dental caries is via action in the mouth, not systemic.  Yes, rickets was rife in poor families in Price's day, and one result is poor teeth.  But the association between the specific dietary ingredients that Price specifically and correctly associated with dental caries (sugar and refined flour) was later found to be largely due to its effect on pH in the mouth, by way of its effect on acid-secreting bacteria.  NOT primarily because it "displaced" key nutrients that are indeed also essential to dental and bone health.

He made some astute observations, but was only partly correct in his conclusions.

Now you can say "He's wrong blah blah blah" and I'm sure you will because that's your chosen orthodoxy ...

It's only "orthodoxy" because it is supported by vast numbers of scientific studies.  And like all scientific "orthodoxies" (a word not used in science because it means "right belief" and is only relevant to religion) by which we mean "conclusion" - it is provisional, and subject to modification by further evidence.

but of course if you want your rebuttal to have any weight you should back it with some other (better) authority.

You have been give countless references to studies showing that the primary mechanism by which sugary foods rot your teeth is that they feed acid-secreting bacteria in the mouth, causing the pH of the saliva to drop to a level that results in demineralisation of the enamel.  Fluoride helps by remineralising the enamel.  Some foods also help by buffering the pH to above that level.  Some of this effect MAY be via nutritional mechanisms but is again primarily local i.e. in the mouth.

If you want the "better authority" (many many publications) then search the Old TR threads.  But you won't.  You couldn't eve be bothered to download Price's papers when I gave yout the actual free link, despite having  complained about  what the WAPF was charging for them.  No wonder it is called the Weston A PRICE Foundation.  What a scam.


I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28743
Good God.  What utter morons.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28744
Look you idiots ...  I'm simply floating a hypothesis out there to explain Photon's bad teeth that I think is better supported than yours ... namely, that his pastures were depleted of minerals like calcium, phosphorus and potassium ... and perhaps others.  I'm floating this hypothesis based on Weston Price's work which you people apparently are too lazy to even read.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28745
Continuing in Price ch. 20 ... Pingu has written about the following problem numerous times, thinking I don't understand the problem .. or something ...

Well, you don't.  You say you do, but then you say things that contradict it, like how you need poop to grow things and how animals are superfast composters, and they FERTILISE land, as though you think that FERTILISER is something that happens when plants get digested/decay, and not that it is something that replenishes exported minerals.  You accuse people of not understanding that "every gardener knows" how good manure is, while failing to acknowledge that manure is good because it BRINGS IN those minerals from elsewhere, not because of its inherent poopiness.

Sure the inherent poopiness is good because of the organic matter, which is good for the soil structure, but you still get it wrong because you are unable to understand that poop isn't compost and has to BE composted before you use it, or it may a) burn the plant roots and/or)  deplete the soil of the nitrogen it needs for the decay processes.

You are basically all over the place.  But it doesn't stop you getting on your high horse and telling the rest of us that we are arrogant morons.


  • Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:22:39 PM by Pingu
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28746
Good God.  What utter morons.

Like you just did.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28747
Look you idiots ...  I'm simply floating a hypothesis out there to explain Photon's bad teeth that I think is better supported than yours ... namely, that his pastures were depleted of minerals like calcium, phosphorus and potassium ... and perhaps others.  I'm floating this hypothesis based on Weston Price's work which you people apparently are too lazy to even read.

And again.  We need an Elkarte plug in that warns "While you were composing your post, Dave may have already proved your point - do you want to modify your post?"
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28748
Look you idiots ...  I'm simply floating a hypothesis out there to explain Photon's bad teeth that I think is better supported than yours ... namely, that his pastures were depleted of minerals like calcium, phosphorus and potassium ... and perhaps others.  I'm floating this hypothesis based on Weston Price's work which you people apparently are too lazy to even read.

What you SAID was that the ONLY explanation you could think of was that Photon's diet had something missing.

Given that there is NO evidence that anything was missing from Photon's diet (except possibly fluoride) that wasn't MORE missing when he moved to an evil city diet, the very point at which his teeth improved, the hypothesis that FITS THE DATA is that something that Photon did after leaving the farm improved his dental health.  e.g. fluoride and brushing.

But you are not OPEN to this POSSIBILITY because it would mean Price was wrong, and despite your pretensions to being open to the POSSIBILITY that he is wrong, you insist that yours is the ONLY explanation you can think of.  Which makes you not only blind but dumb.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #28749
If you were not too lazy to even bother reading Price's book, you would know that he compared the mineral content of lots of indigenous diets with the standard published by the United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics ...
Quote
If we use as a basis the ability of individuals to remove half of the minerals present even though their bodies need more than this, we will be more generous than the average individual's capacity will justify. This will require that we double the amount, as specified for minimum body use by the United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, in their Bulletin R 409, that is, for calcium 0.68 grams; for phosphorus 1.32 grams; for iron 0.015 grams. The figures that will be used, therefore, are for twice the above amounts: 1.36 grams of calcium; 2.64 grams of phosphorus; 0.030 grams of iron.

    Few people who have not been in contact with experimental data on metabolism can appreciate how little of the minerals in the food are retained in the body by large numbers of individuals who are in need of these very chemicals. We have seen that infants cannot absorb calcium from spinach. If we are to provide nutrition that will include an adequate excess as a factor of safety for overloads, and for such periods as those of rapid growth (for children), pregnancy, lactation and sickness, we must provide the excess to the extent of about twice the requirements of normal adults. It will therefore, be necessary for an adequate nutrition to contain approximately four times the minimum requirements of the average adult if all stress periods are to be passed safely.

    It is of interest that the diets of the primitive groups which have shown a very high immunity to dental caries and freedom from other degenerative processes have all provided a nutrition containing at least four times these minimum requirements; whereas the displacing nutrition of commerce, consisting largely of white-flour products, sugar, polished rice, jams, canned goods, and vegetable fats have invariably failed to provide even the minimum requirements. In other words the foods of the native Eskimos contained 5.4 times as much calcium as the displacing foods of the white man, five times as much phosphorus, 1.5 times as much iron, 7.9 times as much magnesium, 1.8 times as much copper, 49.0 times as much iodine, and at least ten times that number of fat-soluble vitamins. For the Indians of the far North of Canada, the native foods provided 5.8 times as much calcium, 5.8 times as much phosphorus, 2.7 times as much iron, 4.3 times as much magnesium, 1.5 times as much copper, 8.8 times as much iodine, and at least a ten fold increase in fat-soluble activators. For brevity, we will apply the figures to calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and fat-soluble activators in order. The ratio in the Swiss native diets to that in the displacing diet was for calcium, 3.7 fold; for phosphorus, 2.2 fold; for magnesium, 2.5 fold; for iron, 3.1 fold; and for the fat-soluble activators, at least ten fold. For the Gaelics in the Outer Hebrides, the native foods provided 2.1 times as much calcium, 2.3 times as much phosphorus, 1.3 times as much magnesium, and 1.0 times as much iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold. For the Aborigines of Australia, living along the eastern coast where they have access to sea foods the ratio of minerals in the native diet to those in the displacing modernized foods was, for calcium, 4.6 fold; for phosphorus, 6.2 fold; for magnesium, 17 fold; and for iron 50.6 fold; while for the fatsoluble activators, it was at least ten fold. The native diet of the New Zealand Maori provided an increase in the native foods over the displacing foods of the modernized whites of 6.2 fold for calcium, 6.9 fold for phosphorus, 23.4 fold for magnesium, 58.3 fold for iron; and the fatsoluble activators were increased at least ten fold. The native diet of the Melanesians provided similarly an increase over the provision made in the modernized foods which displaced them of 5.7 fold for calcium, 6.4 fold for phosphorus, 26.4 fold for magnesium, and 22.4 fold for iron; while the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold. The Polynesians provided through their native diet for an increase in provision over that of the displacing imported diets, of 5.6 fold for calcium, 7.2 fold for phosphorus, 28.5 fold for magnesium, 18.6 fold for iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold. The coastal Indians of Peru provided through their native primitive diets for an increase in provision over that of the displacing modernized diet of 6.6 fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.6 fold for magnesium, 5.1 fold for iron; and an excess of ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins. For the Indians of the Andean Mountains of Peru, the native foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern foods of S fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.3 fold for magnesium, 29.3 fold for iron; and an excess of at least ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins. For the cattle tribes in the interior of Africa, the primitive foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modernized foods of 7.5 fold for calcium, 8.2 fold for phosphorus, 19.1 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and at least ten fold for fat-soluble activators. For the agricultural tribes in Central Africa the native diet provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern diet of 3.5 fold for calcium, 4.1 fold for phosphorus, 5.4 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and ten fold for fat-soluble activators. All the above primitive diets provided also a large increase in the water-soluble vitamins over the number provided in the displacing modern diets.