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  • Talk Rational: 'Having read this thread in its entirety makes me depressed. I think you're forcing each other into situations in which at least one participant will always lose face.'  'welcome to TR!'

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Messages - Resi

1
Quote from: madmardigan
Replace goats and sheep with rabbits and Guyana with Australia and maybe you'll see why it's relevant to think about.

Luckily, Australia doesn't have a feral goat problem

oh fuck
I see your goats and raise you Brumbies and donkeys.

http://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/b32a088c-cd31-4b24-8a7c-70e1880508b5/files/feral-horse.pdf

Can't be arsed to look for an article about cane toads.
2
Following "socrates'" threads over the years I've come to suspect that deep down, he's a baraminologist (God created kinds which are allowed to change into the type they were meant to become). Of course, he knows that around here, he can't come out as such. So he throws in some sound bites like "branching off" and drags in some papers he doesn't understand to make a point because he thinks that's what everyone in the field does.
3
See the number 10 part.
This is exactly what I have been thinking occurred.
https://www.academia.edu/3788868/The_Late_Peopling_of_Africa_According_to_Craniometric_Data._A_Comparison_of_Genetic_and_Linguistic_Models


The part in the North is the migration from the Middle East into Africa that led to the sites on the Nile that we looked at earlier.
From the paper:
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This has given rise to new hypothesis on the population dynamics of Africa over the last 10,000 years.
Honest Doug has cited this paper in the hope that nobody would notice the period it is discussing. But he couldn't resist because finally the arrow points in the right direction !!!111one!
4
Ha, the paper is being hotly debated over at "socrates'" thread. I posted the link before I realised that the crowd over there was way ahead of me.
5
I wonder if "socrates" accepts that his beloved Neandertals are a stage of an evolutionary process. Because if so, their ancestors were not quite as "Neandertalish". Down the line, the odd mutation appeared in just one person that made him or her a little bit different and closer to the most recent Neandertals. How would that person ever be able to reproduce and pass on the mutation if she or he found all the others in the tribe repugnant and not worth mating with?
6
The darwinists are spinning fairy tales about why we have deserts. But if you really want to know the truth about why we have deserts, read this... they are almost all man-made...

http://www.fao.org/docrep/e3200e/e3200e03.htm
http://www.diamantina-tour.com.au/outback_info/map_pages/desertindex2.html

It's a shame what a few thousands of Aborigines did to the once flourishing Australian continent! :whyyou:
7
The singer is an amazing performer! :moskau:
9
So some Americans still believe in the validity of IQ tests? Ages ago - ugh, I'm old - our pedagogy professors warned us not to take those tests seriously, not only because of the above mentioned problems of growing up malnourished and living in polluted environments (e.g. lead-white painted rooms) but also because those tests measure "white" skills and are not able to detect street smarts.
10
In Nature (link to PDF)

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Understanding the timing and character of the expansion of Homo sapiens out of Africa is critical for inferring the colonization and admixture processes that underpin global population history. It has been argued that dispersal out of Africa had an early phase, particularly ~130-90 thousand years ago (ka), that reached only the East Mediterranean Levant, and a later phase, ~60-50 ka, that extended across the diverse environments of Eurasia to Sahul. However, recent findings from East Asia and Sahul challenge this model. Here we show that H. sapiens was in the Arabian Peninsula before 85 ka. We describe the Al Wusta-1 (AW-1) intermediate phalanx from the site of Al Wusta in the Nefud desert, Saudi Arabia. AW-1 is the oldest directly dated fos-sil of our species outside Africa and the Levant. The palaeoenvironmental context of Al Wusta demonstrates that H. sapiens
using Middle Palaeolithic stone tools dispersed into Arabia during a phase of increased precipitation driven by orbital forcing, in association with a primarily African fauna. A Bayesian model incorporating independent chronometric age estimates indicates a chronology for Al Wusta of ~95-86 ka, which we correlate with a humid episode in the later part of Marine Isotope Stage 5 known from various regional records. Al Wusta shows that early dispersals were more spatially and temporally extensive than previously thought. Early H. sapiens dispersals out of Africa were not limited to winter rainfall-fed Levantine Mediterranean woodlands immediately adjacent to Africa, but extended deep into the semi-arid grasslands of Arabia, facilitated by periods of enhanced monsoonal rainfall.

PopSci ABC

11
Science / Re: Heh!
Happy birthday, steviepinhead! I've missed you, hope you will drop by every now and then.  :cheer:
12
good, detailed breakdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcoYKuoiUrY
Yay! I was just about to post this video. It's long, but worth watching. The most disturbing scene is when this fat Nazi encourages his mates to chant death threats to Jews.
13
No, "Socrates".
No one is saying "yes but" to your ludicrous claims that "the actual mtDNA evidence strongly supports the Out of the Middle East theory".
And, no. You have not shown that many times.
Or even once.

You are clearly delusional.
"Socrates" will show us it's true just as soon as he finds someone who draws the arrows in the opposite direction.
14
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/04/140421-neanderthal-dna-genes-human-ancestry-science/
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Neanderthals Lived in Small, Isolated Populations, Gene Analysis Shows
Everything is consistent with the idea that humans evolved from a particular "isolated" group of Neanderthals* in the Middle East.


* within the larger population of Neanderthals in the Middle East

The mtDNA evidence, the nuclear DNA evidence and the fossil evidence are consistent with this hypothesis.
Nope.

Unless that "hypothesis" includes time travel.
Did anyone mention time travel? Maybe the super advanced aliens from Vega who according to "socrates" taught the people from Gobekli Tepe agriculture also meddled with our mtDNA.
15
I was eavesdropping on a guy (from Ukraine or Russia) on a bus telling his companion about what a great culinary treat cow udders are. I didn't catch how you're supposed to cook them.

 Original Receipt from 'Countrey Contentments, or, The English Hus-wife' by Gervase Markham, 1615:

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To roast a Cows Udder
Take a Cows Udder, and first boyl it well: then stick it thick all over with Cloves: then when it is cold spit it, and lay it on the fire, and and apply it very well with basting of sweet Butter, and when it is sufficiently roasted and brown, then dredg it, and draw it from the fire, take Venegar and Butter, and put it on a chafing dish and coals; and boyl it with white bread crum, till it be thick: then put to it good store Sugar and of Cinnamon, and putting it into a clean dish, lay the Cows Udder therein, and trim the sides of the dish with Sugar, and so serve it up.
My grandmother was a cook and came from a poor country family which means she not only ate almost everything but she also knew how to prepare it. She served cow udder crumbed.
16
Would Trump really hate the piss tape being published? He probably thinks it was good fun and anyone who is weirded out by it has no sense of humour. It was the manly thing to do, wasn't it?
17
Quote
"In an evolutionary perspective, this would not be beneficial," Swenson says. "The animals with the most offspring [are the most successful]."

I don't know - the moms who stay longer with their cubs survive to have more cubs.
18
I hope providing Chinese men with ground rhino horns to enhance their performance was worth the exstinction of the subspecies.  :dinorage:
19
A couple of years ago, when I started the long process to apply for Australian citizenship, our immigration consultant told us not to worry, everything would go smoothly because I was white. And I thought, "This guy must be exaggerating, how can he diss his country like that". Little did I know.
20
ENTROPY PERFORMS SOME E COLI GENOME COMPARISONS

Dave, make a prediction for me.    If Minnish's citrate utilization E.coli acquired that ability through a specific nucleotide change encoded by a NGE mechanism would you expect this to be the only alteration in the genomes of that lineage? 
I'm disappointed Dave wasn't brave enough to make a prediction here, but I've gone and done the comparison anyway.   

-Parental strain (MG1655) reference genome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/CP025268.1
-Minnish's assembly data for DV130: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/wgs/LRDD01?display=contigs&page=1

Minnish didn't close the genome assembly, so instead of being  a nice circular chromosome like the reference, it is in big chunks called Contigs (contiguous assembled sequences, small reads covering every base of the genome ~100 times, assembled based on their overlaps).  A couple of them are quite big: 2.9 and 1.7 Mb.    I aligned the 2.9 Mb contig with the reference genome using a program called Mauve (http://darlinglab.org/mauve/mauve.html)

Results?  In the 63% of the genome this contig represents:
Gaps in Reference: 170 
Gaps in Assembly: 244
SNPs: 1551

Close to 2000 mutations, in that 2/3 of the genome alone.  So, not exactly a finely tuned "Natural Genetic Engineering" system at work.

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The sequence of Minnish's bacteria is publically available, as is the sequence he generated from his citrate utilizing derivative.  I compared a piece of Minnish's sequence that amounts to 2/3 of the total genome to the parent and there are 2000 alterations.  1551 of them are simple nucleotide changes.  414 are insertions or deletions.  Several pieces of the genome of the Cit+ bacteria have also been translocated to other parts of the genome. 

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Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Yesterday at 07:36:38 AM
Seems to me like you are saying "Bah NGE is bullshit." If that's what you're saying, I would find that hard to believe because Shapiro has studied this stuff so extensively.
No, your understanding of "NGE" as "a finely tuned system of programmed genetic alterations" is bullshit.  Shapiro wouldn't be surprised that it looks like a bomb went off in this bacteria's genome,

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Okay 2000 alterations in a couple of weeks or maybe three weeks, right? Now when you say it looks like a bomb went off, why do you say that? Are you just saying wow 2000 is a lot of alterations in a two or three-week time span? Or what?
Read the paper.  40 days.      The cells would have only been able to undergo a handful of divisions before starving in the citrate media, and error correction is 99.9999999 percent efficient, so where did all these extra mutations come from?  Does NGE function more like a hand grenade than a scalpel?
So, do you think the other 3000 mutations which have nothing to do with citrate utilization are also the result of a finely tuned NGE system?      Or just the one that allowed the cell to survive?
Afdave's Fourth Law: Unanswerable questions are invisible.
21
Of course they can be creative when combined with natural selection
Example?

( we're not talking about beneficial now ... we're talking about creative )
Do you think the ability to metabolize a new substance is not "creative"?
Well it depends. Does turning the switch on my cell phone to "ON" constitute "creative"? 
No. But making the switch is.
That BS analogy of yours reveals your issues, dave. As well as why you don't understand Shapiro. You claim to comprehend the "Thrird Way", but in reality you are stuck in your "first way" worldview. You think there IS no change or innovation that is not already there somehow, with cells simply "learning" how to utilize it. Except the Third way is all about how change ihappens,  how innovation arises in a population through specific active mechanisms (instead of the cell being a passive recipient).

That is why you will never understand Shapiro. because, if you do, you will also understand that his proposed ideas make evolution EASIER.
Maybe Dave thinks the cell is endowed with the "information" how to engineer changes when needed. Of course then he would have to explain how the "information" got there in the first place, and where it is physically stowed.
22
He was not nekkid underneath - small mercies ...
23
Why would Socrates go to the trouble of constructing the tree of his dreams? He just needs to reverse the arrows on the map ... oh wait, he would ask for someone's help even for that.
25
I'm trying to understand Dave's World:
At the beginning of Lenski's experiment there was just one bacterium bloated with alleles for each gene. Over time, as nasty Lenski changed the environment, the cell's offspring used up more and more alleles as they first gained and then lost usefulness. This will be an ongoing process until the last population is left with one set only, and when cruel Lenski changes the environment one more time - bang! exstinction.
This deterioration until exstinction was preprogrammed by the creator to punish us for Adam and Eve's sin.