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Topic: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering! (Read 2009 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #25
Tim Clarey seems to be the current leading creationist writer on this topic ...

Clarey, T. 2015. Reading African Strata. Acts & Facts. 44 (9): 9. http://www.icr.org/article/reading-african-strata

Clarey, T. 2017. South America Shows the Flood Progression. Acts & Facts. 46 (3): 9. http://www.icr.org/article/south-america-shows-flood-progression

Clarey give an update of ICR's Column Project ... now has data from over 1500 bore sites worldwide ... ]quote]New research confirms that the Flood recorded in Genesis was global. It also reflects the exact step-by-step biblical account of the floodwaters' progression.

In previous articles, I described ICR's Column Project, a research initiative in which we are building a database of stratigraphic columns from across the world.1,2 At that point we'd only completed North America and Africa, compiling stratigraphic information for more than 1,100 boreholes--oil wellbores, outcrops, cores, cross-sections, and seismic data--over these two great land masses.

Most recently, we've added 404 columns across South America, giving a total of over 1,500 compiled stratigraphic columns from around the world. This report describes some of the results of that study and gives compelling confirmation of the biblical Flood account described in Genesis 7.[/quote]


  • Fenrir
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #26
MEGASUCKAGE

That's what we are really talking about here ... and to dig deep into megasuckages, we need to consult me ... here's a nice little franoogle with some background on my work ... i have no idea what this paper actually says but I scored it with a simplistic search term looking for mineable phrases.



I guarantee you that's how every other person read your post.
It's what plants crave.

  • Zombies!
  • We're in the pipe, five by five.
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #27
They didn't actually do any boring, they just googled up info from oil company cores?

Where is the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE?
Dave Hawkins on 11-23-2015, The  poor boy is easily triggered: 
Also it doesn't help that you are a woman ... I've had some bad experiences with super controlling manipulative women in my life and I now react really strongly to that.

  • Fenrir
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #28
They didn't actually do any boring, they just googled up info from oil company cores?

Where is the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE?

Well they bored me.

Dishonest crap tends to do that.

There's no problem gathering and reanalysing other people's data, particularly where you can compare data from a number of studies.

Happens all the time.

Usually with honest intensions.

This is ICR though so anything goes.
It's what plants crave.

  • Zombies!
  • We're in the pipe, five by five.
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #29
I hope we get to a run of good stuff soon.  Heck, I just want to hear some evidence, I don't think I need to be buried under the avalanche of overwhelming evidence.
Dave Hawkins on 11-23-2015, The  poor boy is easily triggered: 
Also it doesn't help that you are a woman ... I've had some bad experiences with super controlling manipulative women in my life and I now react really strongly to that.

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #30
Tim Clarey seems to be the current leading creationist writer on this topic ...

Clarey, T. 2015. Reading African Strata. Acts & Facts. 44 (9): 9. http://www.icr.org/article/reading-african-strata

Clarey, T. 2017. South America Shows the Flood Progression. Acts & Facts. 46 (3): 9. http://www.icr.org/article/south-america-shows-flood-progression

Clarey give an update of ICR's Column Project ... now has data from over 1500 bore sites worldwide ... ]quote]New research confirms that the Flood recorded in Genesis was global. It also reflects the exact step-by-step biblical account of the floodwaters' progression.

In previous articles, I described ICR's Column Project, a research initiative in which we are building a database of stratigraphic columns from across the world.1,2 At that point we'd only completed North America and Africa, compiling stratigraphic information for more than 1,100 boreholes--oil wellbores, outcrops, cores, cross-sections, and seismic data--over these two great land masses.

Most recently, we've added 404 columns across South America, giving a total of over 1,500 compiled stratigraphic columns from around the world. This report describes some of the results of that study and gives compelling confirmation of the biblical Flood account described in Genesis 7.


[/quote]

Dave, your quotes just link to examples of those ICR guys working backwards, trying to find anything that seems *compatible* with an idea they started out with. An idea that requires a lot of really problematic assumptions, some of which I have already pointed out, and that does not look at the various problems at all.

It is a bit like first assuming these rocks were formed by fairies. And then conducting a study, measuring those rocks, to try and ascertain the relative fluctuation of the fairy population levels over time.

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #31
No it's not working backwards. What they are doing is working to find out what's actually there and pulling it all together in one place so they can analyze it. Mainstream geologists should have done that a long time ago. Thankfully, Sloss and some of his students did some of that.

  • Zombies!
  • We're in the pipe, five by five.
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #32
Eh, vox, he was asked his opinion. No need to berate him for answering the question as asked.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but not their own facts.

ETA:  Dave, is this the best evidence you have?  You holding out on us?  I am prepared to be dazzled by the fludscience.
You were in sales once?  Let me hear the sizzle, so my mouth waters for the steak!
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:57:46 AM by Zombies!
Dave Hawkins on 11-23-2015, The  poor boy is easily triggered: 
Also it doesn't help that you are a woman ... I've had some bad experiences with super controlling manipulative women in my life and I now react really strongly to that.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #33
No it's not working backwards.
Yes.
It is.
It's from ICR.
Quote
Ultimately, creationism has nothing to do with science, except that the creationists want to replace a valid scientific idea with their own religious dogmas. It is all about politics and power and promoting their cherished ideas whatever the cost. Creationists don't do normal science, don't publish their anti-evolutionatry ideas in peer-reviewed scientific journals, don't present their results at legitimate scientific meetings, and more importantly, don't even begin to follow the basic precept of science: there is no final truth, and all ideas must be subject to testing and falsification. Creationists have their conclusions already determined. The ICR even makes their members swear a loyalty oath that predetermines their conclusions. No real scientist would ever do this, since in real science, the conclusions must remain tentative and subject to change. Creationists will do whatever it takes to twist and jumble and distort the evidence to support their case.
D. Prothero (2017) Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters

The cited articles START WITH the premise that the biblical flood happened.
The authors are BOUND BY CONTRACT to do that.
Then they gather up bits and pieces of evidence legitimate scientists have collected and write stories about how it can be construed as compatible with their CONTRACTUALLY PREDETERMINED conclusion.

We have been through all this Clarey crap before..
You had your ass handed to you.
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 05:23:54 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #34
Eh, vox, he was asked his opinion. No need to berate him for answering the question as asked.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but not their own facts.

ETA:  Dave, is this the best evidence you have?  You holding out on us?  I am prepared to be dazzled by the fludscience.
You were in sales once?  Let me hear the sizzle, so my mouth waters for the steak!
I still am in sales and plan to be for the rest of my life, although I will scale back some over the next few years ... One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.  It would be much harder to dazzle them with evidence if they were. :wave:

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #35
No it's not working backwards. What they are doing is working to find out what's actually there and pulling it all together in one place so they can analyze it. Mainstream geologists should have done that a long time ago. Thankfully, Sloss and some of his students did some of that.

They do - they start out with the assumption that a flood happened, and then check for things that are compatible and consider that evidence. Just to take the article you linked as an example: they see a similarity between the strata in Africa and the Americas, and interpret that as evidence for a flood, pretending that is the only possible answer.

But it is not - continental drift is another one, just to name something obvious.

Compatibility is not evidence. Especially if your proposed solution requires all the matter that will go on to form trillions of tons of rock is floating around one big seas at the same time. And then forms rocks in under a year somehow. Which contains zircons which show nuclear decay at different speeds, apparently. And neatly sorts fossils in biological communities.


  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #36
my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.  It would be much harder to dazzle them with evidence if they were. :wave:
You have described them as gullible rubes.
I guess it would be much harder to dazzle them if they weren't.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #37
They are only gullible rubes in the sense that they have accepted "conventional housing models" hook line and sinker.  They are NOT gullible rubes in the sense of making foolish purchases within that paradigm.  It's just the paradigm they are operating under is flawed in my opinion. 

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #38
One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
Says the guy who either ignores or handwaves every single piece of evidence against his beliefs, without fail.

ETA: Look! You're even doing it in this post:
:wave:
It's no coincidence that's your favorite emoji. It's the only response you ever have to counter-evidence. That and:
:cripes:  :lalala:
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 06:41:34 AM by BenTheBiased

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #39
They are only gullible rubes in the sense that they have accepted "conventional housing models" hook line and sinker.  They are NOT gullible rubes in the sense of making foolish purchases within that paradigm.  It's just the paradigm they are operating under is flawed in my opinion. 
:rofl:

And I suppose Savory, Price, Shepard, Shapiro, Leopold, etc. etc. etc. are only "hilariously out to lunch" when it comes to age of the earth, common descent - little things like that - but are rock solid scientists when it comes to the bits that you like.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #40
One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
Says the guy who either ignores or handwaves every single piece of evidence against his beliefs, without fail.

ETA: Look! You're even doing it in this post:
:wave:
It's no coincidence that's your favorite emoji. It's the only response you ever have to counter-evidence. That and:
:cripes:  :lalala:
not true. You only say that because you're wearing a blindfold and earplugs. Just yesterday Pingu presented me with evidence that increased rainfall alone can reverse desertification.  Prior to her presenting that, I would have thought that it was not possible.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #41
... my TR customers  ...
Have you noticed that you have failed to make a single sale after 10 years?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #42
One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
Says the guy who either ignores or handwaves every single piece of evidence against his beliefs, without fail.

ETA: Look! You're even doing it in this post:
:wave:
It's no coincidence that's your favorite emoji. It's the only response you ever have to counter-evidence. That and:
:cripes:  :lalala:
not true. You only say that because you're wearing a blindfold and earplugs. Just yesterday Pingu presented me with evidence that increased rainfall alone can reverse desertification.  Prior to her presenting that, I would have thought that it was not possible.
That is not the sort of "belief" BtB is talking about.
Even now that you have seen that, I doubt it will change your belief that Allan Savory is right in all of his pronouncements about deserts and desertification.
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 07:24:07 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • fredbear
  • Militantly Confused
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #43
Dave's sales job is not cold calling and does not involve convincing people that they need to upgrade their windows. His customers are people who have already expressed an interest in upgrading their windows to Sears. Dave's job involves convincing them to choose Sears windows over the competition (something they are predisposed to do considering they have already been in contact with Sears regarding said windows), and to get them to agree to sometimes wildly inflated prices.

In order to lose the sale, Dave has to effectively repulse the customer to the point of rejecting their prior decision to buy Sears windows.
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #44
... my TR customers  ...
Have you noticed that you have failed to make a single sale after 10 years?
Not too surprising, as he for example can't tell prospective buyers how much it will cost to follow his ideas.

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #45
One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
Says the guy who either ignores or handwaves every single piece of evidence against his beliefs, without fail.

ETA: Look! You're even doing it in this post:
:wave:
It's no coincidence that's your favorite emoji. It's the only response you ever have to counter-evidence. That and:
:cripes:  :lalala:
not true. You only say that because you're wearing a blindfold and earplugs. Just yesterday Pingu presented me with evidence that increased rainfall alone can reverse desertification.  Prior to her presenting that, I would have thought that it was not possible.
Your beliefs, Dave. YEC. Age of the Earth. Why are you able to acknowledge the evidence she presented about rainfall reversing desertification, but not the evidence she presented in the same thread showing a long history of climate cycles...

a paper by deMenocal and Tierney that demonstrates evidence of a pattern of deposition from the Sahara that matches the Milankovitch cycles. 
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0170989
Why do these presentations of evidence always appear to be invisible to you?

  • Sea Star
  • Not an octohatter
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #46
Dave's sales job is not cold calling and does not involve convincing people that they need to upgrade their windows. His customers are people who have already expressed an interest in upgrading their windows to Sears. Dave's job involves convincing them to choose Sears windows over the competition (something they are predisposed to do considering they have already been in contact with Sears regarding said windows), and to get them to agree to sometimes wildly inflated prices.

In order to lose the sale, Dave has to effectively repulse the customer to the point of rejecting their prior decision to buy Sears windows.
My mom had a log house. She would never let us make an appointment with the Sears siding people when they cold called. She was a mean mommy.
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Today at 07:50:40 AM
Lol
Sea Star has been trolling me this whole time.

Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #47
One key difference between my Sears customers and my TR customers is ... my Sears customers aren't wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
Says the guy who either ignores or handwaves every single piece of evidence against his beliefs, without fail.

ETA: Look! You're even doing it in this post:
:wave:
It's no coincidence that's your favorite emoji. It's the only response you ever have to counter-evidence. That and:
:cripes:  :lalala:
not true. You only say that because you're wearing a blindfold and earplugs. Just yesterday Pingu presented me with evidence that increased rainfall alone can reverse desertification.  Prior to her presenting that, I would have thought that it was not possible.
That is not the sort of "belief" BtB is talking about.
Even now that you have seen that, I doubt it will change your belief that Allan Savory is right in all of his pronouncements about deserts and desertification.
I believe things that are supported by evidence. Savory's pronouncements are supported by evidence.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #48
I believe things that are supported by evidence.
No. You don't.
There is plenty of evidence supporting the 4.5 billion year age of the earth.
There is plenty of evidence supporting common descent.
There is no evidence supporting a ~ 6000 year old earth.
There is no evidence supporting a global flood.
Quote
Savory's pronouncements are supported by evidence.
All of them?
  • Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:05:35 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Dave presents his OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE of global flood, no badgering!
Reply #49
Yeah.

You weren't asked to try and find some, Dave.

You were asked WHAT IT IS.

It's not a vast and incredibly thin sheet of sandstone because a) no such vast and incredibly thin sheet of sandstone exists and b) it wouldn't be overwhelming evidence for a global flood even if there was.  GEologists have a perfectly good explanation for layers of sandstone, and indeed for megasequences, that are much better than a single Global Flood.

What is the overwhelming evidence you claim you ALREADY have?

I have a Darwin-debased mind.