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Topic: Oldest Human Remains (Read 19118 times) previous topic - next topic

RAFH and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3850
Following "socrates'" threads over the years I've come to suspect that deep down, he's a baraminologist (God created kinds which are allowed to change into the type they were meant to become). Of course, he knows that around here, he can't come out as such. So he throws in some sound bites like "branching off" and drags in some papers he doesn't understand to make a point because he thinks that's what everyone in the field does.

You're giving him too much credit.

He's a child who looks at a picture book and sees two things that look alike and thinks, "hey one came from the other!" No matter if the 2 things are pterosaurs and birds, reptile and mammal, cats and dogs or orangutans and Chinese people.

  • RickB
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3851
Quote
Thus the idea that humans and Neanderthals have a common ancestor in Africa is incorrect.
That would be true only if humans evolved in Africa. But as we have seen there is no actual agreed upon connection between the creatures in Africa and humans.
All they have is:
"According to the recent African origin of modern humans theory, modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis or Homo antecessor"
As I noted earlier:
All they have done is listed some creatures that were in Africa and said they might be an ancestor. And people agreed with that.

The "I" being the African-Canadian known here as So-crates.  The African-Canadian known as So-crates has a problem with ancestry.  But I'm betting that he cannot specify where his African ancestors came from.  In fact one must wonder why thee African-Canadian known here as So-crates has so much disdain for other African-Canadians that he will not even entertain them at his business.


  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3852
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3853
:rofl:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3854

Quote
And in the consensus theory what is picked up from the common ancestor is not attributed to Neanderthal. Is that also clear?
They only attribute to the Neanderthal what evolved on the Neanderthal line after the Neanderthal branched from the common ancestor (1-4%).
Is that clear? Or do you need VoxRat to say that he knew that all along and everybody else knew it all along?
Well it seems that nobody understands this or are pretending not to understand it. Stage 1 is tedious.
I have said a few times that the only way out of Stage 1 is for someone to be honest.
I can help. In the consensus theory what is picked up from the common ancestor is not attributed to Neanderthal because it is attributed to the claimed African ancestor.
Of course it could just as easily be attributed to Neanderthal. Right?
Worth repeating.
I see a problem in the vocabulary that the researchers use. It is biased.
They talk about a common ancestor of humans and Neanderthals. That is only true if humans evolved from a lineage in Africa.
The alternative is that there was a common ancestor branching that led on one branch to Neanderthals and on the other branch to a lineage in Africa that went extinct.

I expect that everyone understands this.
But perhaps some people do not understand it.
The alternative is that there was a common ancestor branching that led on one branch to Neanderthals and on the other branch to a lineage in Africa that went extinct.
And in fact, the branch in Africa (such as homo heidelbergenis, or homo Homo rhodesiensis etc) did in fact go extinct.
And there is no actual agreed upon connection between them and humans. Right?
All the connection that has been mentioned is that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
Quote
According to the recent African origin of modern humans theory, modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis or Homo antecessor
So no actual agreed upon connection.

Hey, sucky, according to your fantasy about the origin of modern humans theory, modern humans evolved in the Middle East from Homo neandertal.

However, it appears there is only one person in the whole world that agrees with that theory, everyone else, at least those who've been asked, disagree entirely with the connection. So no actual agreed upon connection.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3855

Quote
And in the consensus theory what is picked up from the common ancestor is not attributed to Neanderthal. Is that also clear?
They only attribute to the Neanderthal what evolved on the Neanderthal line after the Neanderthal branched from the common ancestor (1-4%).
Is that clear? Or do you need VoxRat to say that he knew that all along and everybody else knew it all along?
Well it seems that nobody understands this or are pretending not to understand it. Stage 1 is tedious.
I have said a few times that the only way out of Stage 1 is for someone to be honest.
I can help. In the consensus theory what is picked up from the common ancestor is not attributed to Neanderthal because it is attributed to the claimed African ancestor.
Of course it could just as easily be attributed to Neanderthal. Right?
Worth repeating.
I see a problem in the vocabulary that the researchers use. It is biased.
They talk about a common ancestor of humans and Neanderthals. That is only true if humans evolved from a lineage in Africa.
The alternative is that there was a common ancestor branching that led on one branch to Neanderthals and on the other branch to a lineage in Africa that went extinct.

I expect that everyone understands this.
But perhaps some people do not understand it.
The alternative is that there was a common ancestor branching that led on one branch to Neanderthals and on the other branch to a lineage in Africa that went extinct.
And in fact, the branch in Africa (such as homo heidelbergenis, or homo Homo rhodesiensis etc) did in fact go extinct.
And there is no actual agreed upon connection between them and humans. Right?
All the connection that has been mentioned is that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
Quote
According to the recent African origin of modern humans theory, modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis or Homo antecessor
So no actual agreed upon connection.

So if you believe that humans evolved in Africa, it is clearly not based on any actual agreed upon evidence of how that happened.
The alternative is that there was a common ancestor branching that led on one branch to Neanderthals and on the other branch to a lineage in Africa that went extinct.
And the branch in Africa (such as homo heidelbergenis, or homo Homo rhodesiensis etc) did in fact go extinct, with no actual agreed upon connection to humans.
Thus the idea that humans and Neanderthals have a common ancestor in Africa is incorrect.
No, sucky, it's not.
You're just an internet nutjob crackpot with no relevant education, training and/or experience. You've never actually touched a fossil, not a human one. You've never been out on a dig.
But of course, you are right and thousands upon thousands of scientists, real scientists who actually went to school for a long time and then trained and worked digs and did the research and generally busted their asses are wrong.
You're delusional. You should seek help. Especially with that Scrubbing Bubbles habit.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3856
Quote
Thus the idea that humans and Neanderthals have a common ancestor in Africa is incorrect.
That would be true only if humans evolved in Africa. But as we have seen there is no actual agreed upon connection between the creatures in Africa and humans.
All they have is:
"According to the recent African origin of modern humans theory, modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis or Homo antecessor"
As I noted earlier:
All they have done is listed some creatures that were in Africa and said they might be an ancestor. And people agreed with that.
All you've done is list some creature that has never been discovered and said it is an ancestor. And nobody agreed with that.
Are we there yet?

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3857
Speaking of Doug's imaginary game-changing ancestors.

This is every single Denisovan and Neandertal in the NCBI database.  At what point do Doug's ridiculous fantasies deserve anything less than complete and justifiable rejection?



Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3858
For reference:
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3859
For reference:
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.

This, from the Play Pretend Professor, who routinely pretends other people's posts don't exist as he adds level after level of nested self-quoting, pretending that somehow that's "building a case".  The same Play Pretend Professor who was pretending, post after post, that he had something to teach us ("Let me help...") about Muc7 haplogroups, as he repeatedly stepped on dog turd after dog turd demonstrating beyond the slightest doubt that he hadn't the slightest idea what he was talking about, then pretending that he never made that mistake...

It's either projection, or a galactic black hole of obliviousness.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Faid
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3860
This is going nowhere.
It never was. Your pathetic "theory" was stillborn.
It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending.
Which is why everyone is merely pointing and laughing at you at this point.
I will be leaving this shortly.
Well I won that bet. :wave:
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3861
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
  • Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 05:53:31 AM by socrates1

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3862
For reference:
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.
If only.

And if only sucky would just stay in his toilet enclave deeply inhaling those Scrubbing Bubbles leaving the world of science to reality.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3863
For reference:
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.

This, from the Play Pretend Professor, who routinely pretends other people's posts don't exist as he adds level after level of nested self-quoting, pretending that somehow that's "building a case".  The same Play Pretend Professor who was pretending, post after post, that he had something to teach us ("Let me help...") about Muc7 haplogroups, as he repeatedly stepped on dog his own turds after another of his own dog turds demonstrating beyond the slightest doubt that he hadn't the slightest idea what he was talking about, then pretending that he never made that mistake...

It's either projection, or a galactic black hole of obliviousness.
Most likely both, a product of MINDKaPPing and Scrubbing Bubbles. A dangerous combination.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3864
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
No, it's not.

At least not anywhere other than suckyville.
suckyville, where the streets run full with fresh Scrubbing Bubbles.
Are we there yet?

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3865
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
And it is likely that the more typical African came from a separate migration from the Middle East into the region near the Horn of Africa.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3866
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
::)

More evidence that you are an idiot.

The fact that North America is now inhabited by people whose DNA mostly traces to Europe and Africa does not tell us anything about Early Humans In America.
The fact that Cleopatra was actually Greek tells us nothing about events 60,000 - 120,000 years earlier.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3867
And it is likely that the more typical African came from a separate migration from the Middle East into the region near the Horn of Africa.
I guess this is not the same "Socrates" that claims he always supports his assertions with reference, link and relevant copy-pasted material.

With so many nestedly self-quoting "Socrates"'s in the thread, it's hard to know which is which.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3868
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
And the dating of the early sites along the Nile supports this as well.
  • Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 06:14:58 AM by socrates1

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3869
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
And the dating of the early sites along the Nile support this as well.
Odd how no one who actually studies the subject agrees with this Dunning-Kruger assessment.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3870
LOL. Those "early humans" in Egypt 3,000 years ago.

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3871
  • Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 06:28:57 AM by socrates1

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3872
This is going nowhere. It is not possible to have a discussion with people who are pretending. I will be leaving this shortly.
"shortly" has come and gone.

Bye "Socrates":wave:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3873
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
And the dating of the early sites along the Nile supports this as well.
Interesting:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dna-genome-heritage/index.html

The article itself:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

More evidence in support of the idea that early humans in Egypt likely came from the Middle East.
And the dating of the early sites along the Nile supports this as well.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300068495_Diffusion_with_modifications_Nubian_assemblages_in_the_central_Negev_highlands_of_Israel_and_their_implications_for_Middle_Paleolithic_inter-regional_interactions

Abstract (my bolding):
Quote
Nubian Levallois cores, now known from sites in eastern Africa, the Nile Valley and Arabia, have been used as a material culture marker for Upper Pleistocene dispersals of hominins out of Africa. The Levantine corridor, being the only land route connecting Africa to Eurasia, has been viewed as a possible dispersal route. We report here on lithic assemblages from the Negev highlands of Israel that contain both Levallois centripetal and Nubian-type cores. Wetter conditions over the Sahara and Negev deserts during MIS 6a-5e provided a generally continuous environmental corridor into the Levant that enabled the dispersal of hominin groups bearing the Nubian variant of prepared core technologies. The Negev assemblages draw renewed attention to the place of the Levant as one of the dispersal routes out of Africa during the Late Pleistocene and could suggest that processes of human dispersals and cultural diffusion resulted in the spread of Nubian technology across eastern Africa, the western Sahara and the Nile Valley, the southern Levant and Arabia.
Another perfect foot-shooting by Socrates!

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #3874

And the dating of the early sites along the Nile supports this as well.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300068495_Diffusion_with_modifications_Nubian_assemblages_in_the_central_Negev_highlands_of_Israel_and_their_implications_for_Middle_Paleolithic_inter-regional_interactions
Odd how the authors of that paper somehow missed that point entirely. The abstract:
Quote
Nubian Levallois cores, now known from sites in eastern Africa, the Nile Valley and Arabia, have been used as a material culture marker for Upper Pleistocene dispersals of hominins out of Africa. The Levantine corridor, being the only land route connecting Africa to Eurasia, has been viewed as a possible dispersal route. We report here on lithic assemblages from the Negev highlands of Israel that contain both Levallois centripetal and Nubian-type cores. Wetter conditions over the Sahara and Negev deserts during MIS 6a-5e provided a generally continuous environmental corridor into the Levant that enabled the dispersal of hominin groups bearing the Nubian variant of prepared core technologies. The Negev assemblages draw renewed attention to the place of the Levant as one of the dispersal routes out of Africa during the Late Pleistocene and could suggest that processes of human dispersals and cultural diffusion resulted in the spread of Nubian technology across eastern Africa, the western Sahara and the Nile Valley, the southern Levant and Arabia.

ETA:  ninja'd, of course.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins