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Topic: Introduction to Systems Biology (Read 17064 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #50
yep.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #51
Quote from: Charles Darwin
On the theory of descent with modification, the great law of the long enduring, but not immutable, succession of the same types within the same areas, is at once explained; for the inhabitants of each quarter of the world will obviously tend to leave in that quarter, during the next succeeding period of time, closely allied though in some degree modified descendants. If the inhabitants of one continent formerly differed greatly from those of another continent, so will their modified descendants still differ in nearly the same manner and degree. But after very long intervals of time and after great geographical changes, permitting much inter-migration, the feebler will yield to the more dominant forms, and there will be nothing immutable in the laws of past and present distribution.

Perhaps now that neo-Darwinism is dead, Dave could start referring to DM+NS instead of RM+NS.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #52
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #53
That's right. I don't read someone's book until I am sold on the idea that I should read it for whatever reason. Life is too short.

And you aren't yet sold on the idea of reading Shapiro's book? Even though you think he's a saint?
Getting closer, thanks to Denis Noble's video yesterday.

So you went all in for Noble because he agreed with your assessment of Shapiro as a "saint".  And yet that assessment was based on NOT reading Shapiro's actual book or papers???

wtf Dave?

What made you adopt Shapiro as your saint in the first place if you still aren't "sold" on him enough to even read his book?  And if you still aren't sold on him enough to read his book, whay should Noble's approval of Shapiro's book make you think that Noble is worth reading?

Not that you have, yet, apparently.

When is your review going to be posted?
There's plenty of saints whose books I haven't read.
Were these saints whose books you haven't read canonized by you?
Are we there yet?

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #54
yep.

mind-meld :)
I do think systems models are fully compatible with materialism, but I'm still not fully in the materialism camp because systems as models exist over time whereas reality doesn't seem to.
  • Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 09:39:25 AM by Testy Calibrate
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #55
Quote from: Charles Darwin
On the theory of descent with modification, the great law of the long enduring, but not immutable, succession of the same types within the same areas, is at once explained; for the inhabitants of each quarter of the world will obviously tend to leave in that quarter, during the next succeeding period of time, closely allied though in some degree modified descendants. If the inhabitants of one continent formerly differed greatly from those of another continent, so will their modified descendants still differ in nearly the same manner and degree. But after very long intervals of time and after great geographical changes, permitting much inter-migration, the feebler will yield to the more dominant forms, and there will be nothing immutable in the laws of past and present distribution.

Perhaps now that neo-Darwinism is dead, Dave could start referring to DM+NS instead of RM+NS.
But what would he have left to rail against then? He believes in DM+NS! At least up to the undefined level of "kind."*

*Which, if I had to define it based on the way YECs use it, would be something like "the list an average five-year-old might make if you asked them to name all the animals they could think of."

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #56
RM+NS is not creative. It's destructive.

DM+NS is not creative. It's adaptive.

So what IS creative?

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #57
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #58
Are you going to post your review of Noble's article?

Or just a load of unrelated and unsupported assertions?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #59
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
your world seems so small
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #60
Limited search space.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #61
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
your world seems so small
Well if you know of anything else that's creative please tell me what it is.

  • nesb
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #62
Gas clouds. They create stars.

  • nesb
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #63
Volcanoes. They create volcanic rock.

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #64
Clouds. They create rain.

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #65
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
your world seems so small
Well if you know of anything else that's creative please tell me what it is.

Well, first tell me what you mean by creative.

I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #66
But before you even do that, why not post your review of Noble's article?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #67
Here's how I would review Noble's paper ...

"A genuine 'theory of biology' does not yet exist" (so how can darwinists tell us how something they can't even explain came to be?)

But thankfully mainstreamers are getting closer, thanks to Third Wayers with Brass Balls like Noble.

Who aren't afraid of idiots like Jerry Coyne.

And this new systems picture of life is closer to the picture that Creationists have painted for a long time.

In other words, Darwinists are finally starting to crawl out of the hole they fell into in 1859 ... thanks to Saint Shapiro and Co.
  • Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:09:08 AM by Dave Hawkins

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #68
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
your world seems so small
Well if you know of anything else that's creative please tell me what it is.
gaia
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #69
Here's how I would review Noble's paper ...

"A genuine 'theory of biology' does not yet exist"

But thankfully mainstreamers are getting closer, thanks to Third Wayers with Brass Balls like Noble.

Who aren't afraid of idiots like Jerry Coyne.

And this new systems picture of life is closer to the picture that Creationists have painted for a long time.

In other words, Darwinists are finally starting to crawl out of the hole they fell into in 1859 ... thanks to Saint Shapiro and Co.

So can you tell us in what ways, in your view, the theory of biology that Noble proposes in the article is more similar to Creationism than to Darwin's theory?

Even just a couple of examples would be helpful.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #70
 As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years since its advent: the Eternal Hell revives. And lo! Swedenborg is the Angel sitting at the tomb; his writings are the linen clothes folded up. Now is the dominion of Edom, & the return of Adam into Paradise; see Isaiah XXXIV & XXXV Chap:
Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence.
From these contraries spring what the religious call Good & Evil. Good is the passive that obeys Reason. Evil is the active springing from Energy.
Good is Heaven. Evil is Hell.

The voice of the Devil.
All Bibles or sacred codes have been the causes of the following Errors.

1. That Man has two real existing principles Viz: a Body & a Soul.
2. That Energy, call'd Evil, is alone from the Body, & that Reason, call'd Good, is alone from the Soul.
3. That God will torment Man in Eternity for following his Energies.

But the following Contraries to these are True

1. Man has no Body distinct from his Soul for that call'd Body is a portion of Soul discern'd by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age
2. Energy is the only life and is from the Body and Reason is the bound or outward circumference of Energy.
3 Energy is Eternal Delight

Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained; and the restrainer or reason usurps its place & governs the unwilling.
And being restrain'd it by degrees becomes passive till it is only the shadow of desire.
The history of this is written in Paradise Lost, & the Governor or Reason is call'd Messiah.
And the original Archangel or possessor of the command of the heavenly host, is call'd the Devil or Satan and his children are call'd Sin & Death.
But in the Book of Job Miltons Messiah is call'd Satan.
For this history has been adopted by both parties.
It indeed appear'd to Reason as if Desire was cast out, but the Devil's account is, that the Messiah fell, & formed a heaven of what he stole from the Abyss.

This is shewn in the Gospel, where he prays to the Father to send the comforter or Desire that Reason may have Ideas to build on, the Jehovah of the Bible being no other than he who dwells in flaming fire.
Know that after Christs death, he became Jehovah.
But in Milton; the Father is Destiny, the Son, a Ratio of the five senses, & the Holy-ghost, Vacuum!
Note: The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell, is because he was a true Poet and of the Devils party without knowing it.

A Memorable Fancy.
As I was walking among the fires of hell, delighted with the enjoyments of Genius; which to Angels look like torment and insanity. I collected some of their Proverbs: thinking that as the sayings used in a nation, mark its character, so the Proverbs of Hell, shew the nature of Infernal wisdom better than any description of buildings or garments.
When I came home; on the abyss of the five senses, where a flat sided steep frowns over the present world. I saw a mighty Devil folded in black clouds, hovering on the sides of the rock, with corroding fires he wrote the following sentence now percieved by the minds of men, & read by them on earth.

How do you know but ev'ry Bird that cuts the airy way,
Is an immense world of delight, clos'd by your senses five?

Proverbs of Hell.
In seed time learn, in harvest teach, in winter enjoy.
Drive your cart and your plow over the bones of the dead.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity.
He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence.
The cut worm forgives the plow.
Dip him in the river who loves water.
A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.
He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star.
Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
The busy bee has no time for sorrow.
The hours of folly are measur'd by the clock, but of wisdom: no clock can measure.
All wholsom food is caught without a net or a trap.
Bring out number weight & measure in a year of dearth.
No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings.
A dead body revenges not injuries.
The most sublime act is to set another before you.
If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.
Folly is the cloke of knavery.
Shame is Prides cloke.

Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion.
The pride of the peacock is the glory of God.
The lust of the goat is the bounty of God.
The wrath of the lion is the wisdom of God.
The nakedness of woman is the work of God.
Excess of sorrow laughs. Excess of joy weeps.
The roaring of lions, the howling of wolves, the raging of the stormy sea, and the destructive sword, are portions of eternity too great for the eye of man.
The fox condemns the trap, not himself.
Joys impregnate. Sorrows bring forth.
Let man wear the fell of the lion. woman the fleece of the sheep.
The bird a nest, the spider a web, man friendship.
The selfish smiling fool, & the sullen frowning fool shall be both thought wise, that they may be a rod.
What is now proved was once only imagin'd.
The rat, the mouse, the fox, the rabbet; watch the roots; the lion, the tyger, the horse, the elephant, watch the fruits.
The cistern contains: the fountain overflows.
One thought fills immensity.
Always be ready to speak your mind, and a base man will avoid you.
Every thing possible to be believ'd is an image of truth.
The eagle never lost so much time, as when he submitted to learn of the crow.


The fox provides for himself. but God provides for the lion.
Think in the morning. Act in the noon. Eat in the evening. Sleep in the night.
He who has suffer'd you to impose on him knows you.
As the plow follows words, so God rewards prayers.
The tygers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
Expect poison from the standing water.
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough.
Listen to the fools reproach! it is a kingly title!
The eyes of fire, the nostrils of air, the mouth of water, the beard of earth.
The weak in courage is strong in cunning.
The apple tree never asks the beech how he shall grow; nor the lion, the horse, how he shall take his prey.
The thankful reciever bears a plentiful harvest.
If others bad not been foolish, we should be so.
The soul of sweet delight can never be defil'd.
When thou seest an Eagle, thou seest a portion of Genius. lift up thy head!
As the catterpiller chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs, so the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys.
To create a little flower is the labour of ages.
Damn braces: Bless relaxes.
The best wine is the oldest, the best water the newest.
Prayers plow not! Praises reap not!
Joys laugh not! Sorrows weep not!


The head Sublime, the heart Pathos, the genitals Beauty, the hands & feet Proportion.
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible.
The crow wish'd every thing was black, the owl, that every thing was white.
Exuberance is Beauty.
If the lion was advised by the fox. he would be cunning.
Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement, are roads of Genius.
Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires.
Where man is not, nature is barren.
Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be believ'd.
Enough! or Too much.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #71
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
your world seems so small
Well if you know of anything else that's creative please tell me what it is.
Polymerase infidelity.  It creates new DNA sequences.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #72
Here's how I would review Noble's paper ...

"A genuine 'theory of biology' does not yet exist" (so how can darwinists tell us how something they can't even explain came to be?)

But thankfully mainstreamers are getting closer, thanks to Third Wayers with Brass Balls like Noble.

Who aren't afraid of idiots like Jerry Coyne.

And this new systems picture of life is closer to the picture that Creationists have painted for a long time.

In other words, Darwinists are finally starting to crawl out of the hole they fell into in 1859 ... thanks to Saint Shapiro and Co.
I am quite certain that is NOT how Noble would review his paper.
But of course, as usual, you know what he meant better than he did.

::)
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #73
Dave didn't read the paper.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • JonF
Re: Introduction to Systems Biology
Reply #74
The only thing WE know of that's creative is ...

INTELLIGENCE

Anything else is non evidence based speculation.
Sorry, dork, evolutionary processes are often creative. Plenty of that has been observed. No way you can comprehend that, of course.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins