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  • Talk Rational: You probably won't be protected from free speech that you don't like.

Topic: Facebook (Read 261 times) previous topic - next topic

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Facebook

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Facebook
Reply #1
why not

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Facebook
Reply #2
tho I was just reading the other day that the koches are so unhappy with the direction trump is taking the gop on budget and trade that they are now looking at wokring with democrats

however, any help will likely be conditioned on supporting their quaint, has-been tea party ism.  also, I'm guessing few democrats would accept such help because having gotten money from the koches would probably be poisonous in their next primary.

Re: Facebook
Reply #3
launch the kochs into the sun and use their fortunes to fund Nature/Nova imo


  • ksen
Re: Facebook
Reply #4
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17220878/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-testimony-monopoly-graham

Quote
Here's video as well as a transcript of the entire exchange:

Lindsey Graham
Who is your biggest competitor?

Mark Zuckerberg
Senator, we have a lot of competitors.

Lindsey Graham
Who's your biggest?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the categories -- did you want just one? I'm not sure I can give one. But can I give a bunch?

Lindsey Graham
Mmhmm.

Mark Zuckerberg
There are three categories that I would focus on. One are the other tech platforms, so Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft; we overlap with them in different ways.

Lindsey Graham
Do they provide the same service you provide?

Mark Zuckerberg
In different ways, different parts of it, yes.

Lindsey Graham
Let me put it this way: If I buy a Ford and it doesn't work well and I don't like it, I can buy a Chevy. If I'm upset with Facebook, what's the equivalent product that I can go sign up for?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, the second category that I was going to talk about --

Lindsey Graham
I'm not talking about categories. What I'm talking is the real competition you face.

Because car companies face a lot of competition. If they make a defective car, it gets out in the world, people stop being that car and buy another one.

Is there an alternative to Facebook in the private sector?

Mark Zuckerberg
Yes, Senator. The average American uses eight different apps to communicate with their friends and stay in touch with people.

Lindsey Graham
Okay.

Mark Zuckerberg
Ranging from text apps to email --

Lindsey Graham
Which is the same service you provide?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, we provide a number of different services.

Lindsey Graham
Is Twitter the same as what you do?

Mark Zuckerberg
It overlaps with a portion of what we do.

Lindsey Graham
You don't think you have a monopoly?

Mark Zuckerberg
It certainly doesn't feel like that to me.

Lindsey Graham
So it doesn't. So you bought Instagram? Why did you buy Instagram?

Mark Zuckerberg
Because they were very talented app developers who are making good use of our platform and understood our values.

Lindsey Graham
It was a good business decision.

My point is that one way to regulate is through competition, through government regulation. Here's the question that all of us got to answer: What do we tell our constituents, given what's happened here, why we should let you self-regulate?

What would you tell people in South Carolina, that given all the things we've just discovered here, it's a good idea for us to rely upon you to regulate your own business practices?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, Senator, my position is not that there should be no regulation.

Lindsey Graham
Okay.

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the internet is increasing --

Lindsey Graham
Do you embrace regulation?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the real question, as the internet becomes more important in people's lives, is what's the right regulation? Not whether there should be or not.

Lindsey Graham
But you as a company welcome regulation?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think if it's a right regulation, then yes.

Lindsey Graham
Do you think the Europeans have it right?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think that they get things right.

Lindsey Graham
That's true.

So would you work with us in terms of what regulations you think are necessary in your industry?

Mark Zuckerberg
Absolutely.

Lindsey Graham is one of the worst but I think he did a good job of getting his point across that FB has no real competition and is, in fact, a monopoly.

Now, will regulators go as far as breaking up FB?

Should they? I think probably so.

Re: Facebook
Reply #5
maybe fb can write model regulations for congress?

  • ksen
Re: Facebook
Reply #6
Design a FB app, "Which FB regulation are you?"

Re: Facebook
Reply #7
FB is right. They aren't a monopoly. They are hegemonic though. Google plus is pretty similar and don't forget that Myspace was the original Facebook type app and is still around. 
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Facebook
Reply #8
FB is right. They aren't a monopoly. They are hegemonic though. Google plus is pretty similar and don't forget that Myspace was the original Facebook type app and is still around. 
Nobody uses either of those other services though.

A social networking platform without a decent user base is pretty pointless.


Re: Facebook
Reply #10
FB is right. They aren't a monopoly. They are hegemonic though. Google plus is pretty similar and don't forget that Myspace was the original Facebook type app and is still around. 
Nobody uses either of those other services though.

A social networking platform without a decent user base is pretty pointless.
Yeah but monopolies in tech are different from in other industries. Is Microsoft still a monopoly? The answer has more to do with their success or not in generating path dependency than their monopolistic business practices. Microsoft put all their eggs in pursuing monopoly rather than superior product. Their fate has been largely shaped by that decision.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Facebook
Reply #11
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17220878/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-testimony-monopoly-graham

Quote
Here's video as well as a transcript of the entire exchange:

Lindsey Graham
Who is your biggest competitor?

Mark Zuckerberg
Senator, we have a lot of competitors.

Lindsey Graham
Who's your biggest?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the categories -- did you want just one? I'm not sure I can give one. But can I give a bunch?

Lindsey Graham
Mmhmm.

Mark Zuckerberg
There are three categories that I would focus on. One are the other tech platforms, so Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft; we overlap with them in different ways.

Lindsey Graham
Do they provide the same service you provide?

Mark Zuckerberg
In different ways, different parts of it, yes.

Lindsey Graham
Let me put it this way: If I buy a Ford and it doesn't work well and I don't like it, I can buy a Chevy. If I'm upset with Facebook, what's the equivalent product that I can go sign up for?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, the second category that I was going to talk about --

Lindsey Graham
I'm not talking about categories. What I'm talking is the real competition you face.

Because car companies face a lot of competition. If they make a defective car, it gets out in the world, people stop being that car and buy another one.

Is there an alternative to Facebook in the private sector?

Mark Zuckerberg
Yes, Senator. The average American uses eight different apps to communicate with their friends and stay in touch with people.

Lindsey Graham
Okay.

Mark Zuckerberg
Ranging from text apps to email --

Lindsey Graham
Which is the same service you provide?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, we provide a number of different services.

Lindsey Graham
Is Twitter the same as what you do?

Mark Zuckerberg
It overlaps with a portion of what we do.

Lindsey Graham
You don't think you have a monopoly?

Mark Zuckerberg
It certainly doesn't feel like that to me.

Lindsey Graham
So it doesn't. So you bought Instagram? Why did you buy Instagram?

Mark Zuckerberg
Because they were very talented app developers who are making good use of our platform and understood our values.

Lindsey Graham
It was a good business decision.

My point is that one way to regulate is through competition, through government regulation. Here's the question that all of us got to answer: What do we tell our constituents, given what's happened here, why we should let you self-regulate?

What would you tell people in South Carolina, that given all the things we've just discovered here, it's a good idea for us to rely upon you to regulate your own business practices?

Mark Zuckerberg
Well, Senator, my position is not that there should be no regulation.

Lindsey Graham
Okay.

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the internet is increasing --

Lindsey Graham
Do you embrace regulation?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think the real question, as the internet becomes more important in people's lives, is what's the right regulation? Not whether there should be or not.

Lindsey Graham
But you as a company welcome regulation?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think if it's a right regulation, then yes.

Lindsey Graham
Do you think the Europeans have it right?

Mark Zuckerberg
I think that they get things right.

Lindsey Graham
That's true.

So would you work with us in terms of what regulations you think are necessary in your industry?

Mark Zuckerberg
Absolutely.

Lindsey Graham is one of the worst but I think he did a good job of getting his point across that FB has no real competition and is, in fact, a monopoly.

Now, will regulators go as far as breaking up FB?

Should they? I think probably so.

TBF it's not FB's fault that people (in the US) stopped using Friendster and MySpace. It's not like FB bought them out or forced them out of business. They still exist and FB does face competition from them in other parts of the world.

Calling FB a monopoly is like calling Coca Cola a monopoly because Pepsi and RC Cola have lower sales.

  • MSG
Re: Facebook
Reply #12
FB is right. They aren't a monopoly. They are hegemonic though. Google plus is pretty similar and don't forget that Myspace was the original Facebook type app and is still around. 
Economists define a monopoly as an organisation having overwhelming market power. From memory the measure is over 80%. Those other platforms might aim to  offer similar functionality but they are inconsequential in a competitive sense.
braying among the ruins

Re: Facebook
Reply #13
The definition is not useful in software and digital intellectual property because they are "natural monopolies" in terms of path dependency. However, for example,  if someone owns all the server space for all that path dependent networks, then you have an economic monopoly.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • MSG
Re: Facebook
Reply #14
The point is Myspace and Google Plus don't in any meaningful sense represent competition to Facebook
braying among the ruins

Re: Facebook
Reply #15
The point is Myspace and Google Plus don't in any meaningful sense represent competition to Facebook
I understood the point. :)
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Facebook
Reply #16
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Facebook
Reply #17
^keylogger

Re: Facebook
Reply #18
wha?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • ksen
Re: Facebook
Reply #19
http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/antonio-garcia-martinez-former-facebook-employee-interview.html

Series of interviews with four former FB employees and a former FB investor about the crisis at FB specifically and in the tech industry in general.

I'm reading the one with former ad guy Antonio Garcia Martinez right now and it's good so far.

Quick excerpt:

Quote
Why's the organic side so scary?

´╗┐Well, because what do you do about it, right? I mean, at the end of the day, Facebook is tyrannical about its ads. If you do anything to fuck it once, it'll just kick you off. There's no freedom of speech, there's no anything. It's like, "You're here. You give us money, otherwise fuck off." That's Facebook's attitude toward its advertisers.

It's very different when you go back into feeds. Everyone uses feeds. There's free-speech concerns, there's political concerns, there's "What is hate speech?" concerns. There's just so many contending factors and stakeholders there. Humans need narratives to survive and live, and the new source of narratives is Facebook.

This is where they just wade into the whole cesspit of human psychology. I mean, the reality is that Facebook is cognitive dissonance at scale. Cognitive dissonance is the feeling of awkwardness you feel when your worldview gets contradicted in some concrete way. You've got a worldview, you're presented with evidence that it's wrong, but you don't sort of lose your belief, you actually dig your heels in and believe in it even more because you see contrary evidence. It's this weird, knee-jerk reaction the human mind has.

So Facebook, I wouldn't say it exploits it, like no one's sitting there on Facebook going, "Ha, ha, ha, ha. Cognitive dissonance." But the algorithm, by default, is designed to placate you by shielding you from the things you don't want to hear about. That, to me, is the scary part--because there's no changing human psychology on a timescale that's relevant to us. The real problem is not Facebook--it's humans.

Well, in a sense, though, there's also the problem of Facebook attempting to answer a lot of these questions through the use of algorithms by weighting certain things above or below others. Do you think that there's a possibility that there's a future in which we either rely on the algorithm to do that kind of work less, or that we have algorithms that are much more strictly regulated? What's the next step for the algorithm in this, if the algorithm is what's doing so much of that internal regulation?

´╗┐There's this notion of the algorithmic path. Way before Facebook, going back to Google, they've always claimed, "Look, we're just intermediaries. The algorithm optimizes for a metric, whether it's engagement, clicks, or whatever. We're not responsible for what you see. At the end of the day, it's you, the users, through your actions, that ultimately define what you see. It's not really us."

I think we're reaching a point where people are unwilling to write them that blank algorithmic check. Hopefully, I'm not using too many metaphors there. But you see what I mean, right?

The real issue is that people don't assign moral agency to logic and algorithms. When shit goes sideways, you want someone to fucking shake a finger at and scream at. But Facebook just says, "Don't look at us. Look at this pile of code." Somehow, the human sense of justice isn't placated.

  • ravenscape
  • Administrator
  • Triggered
Re: Facebook
Reply #20
Current Facebook employee with ties to Kogen and Cambridge Analytica is under internal investigation.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/18/technology/business/facebook-cambridge-analytica/index.html

Facebook won't say if he had access to the CA data or if he's been told to delete it.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Facebook
Reply #21
eenteresting

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: Facebook
Reply #22
Silicon Valley is going to destroy the whole fucking planet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/asia/facebook-sri-lanka-riots.html

Quote
We came to this house to try to understand the forces of social disruption that have followed Facebook's rapid expansion in the developing world, whose markets represent the company's financial future. For months, we had been tracking riots and lynchings around the world linked to misinformation and hate speech on Facebook, which pushes whatever content keeps users on the site longest -- a potentially damaging practice in countries with weak institutions.

Time and again, communal hatreds overrun the newsfeed -- the primary portal for news and information for many users -- unchecked as local media are displaced by Facebook and governments find themselves with little leverage over the company. Some users, energized by hate speech and misinformation, plot real-world attacks.

A reconstruction of Sri Lanka's descent into violence, based on interviews with officials, victims and ordinary users caught up in online anger, found that Facebook's newsfeed played a central role in nearly every step from rumor to killing. Facebook officials, they say, ignored repeated warnings of the potential for violence, resisting pressure to hire moderators or establish emergency points of contact.

Quote
It began with a customer yelling in Sinhalese about something he had found in his dinner. Unable to understand Sinhalese, Farsith, the 28-year-old brother running the register, ignored him.

He did not know that the day before, a viral Facebook rumor claimed, falsely, that the police had seized 23,000 sterilization pills from a Muslim pharmacist in Ampara.

The irate customer drew a crowd, which gathered around Farsith, shouting: "You put in sterilization medicine, didn't you?"

He grasped only that they were asking about a lump of flour in the customer's meal, and worried that saying the wrong thing might turn the crowd violent.

"I don't know," Farsith said in broken Sinhalese. "Yes, we put?"

The mob, hearing confirmation, beat him, destroyed the shop and set fire to the local mosque.

In an earlier time, this might have ended in Ampara. But Farsith's "admission" had been recorded on a cellphone. Within hours, a popular Facebook group, the Buddhist Information Center, pushed out the shaky, 18-second video, presenting it as proof of long-rumored Muslim plots. Then it spread.

Quote
And where people do not feel they can rely on the police or courts to keep them safe, research shows, panic over a perceived threat can lead some to take matters into their own hands -- to lynch.

Last year, in rural Indonesia, rumors spread on Facebook and WhatsApp, a Facebook-owned messaging tool, that gangs were kidnapping local children and selling their organs. Some messages included photos of dismembered bodies or fake police fliers. Almost immediately, locals in nine villages lynched outsiders they suspected of coming for their children.

Near-identical social media rumors have also led to attacks in India and Mexico. Lynchings are increasingly filmed and posted back to Facebook, where they go viral as grisly tutorials.
  • Last Edit: Today at 10:23:31 AM by meepmeep