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  • TalkRational: I cant believe grown adults have to waste their time on this immensely stupid shit.

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Messages - superhoop

1
Dave got nearly everything in the article wrong. It's not entirely his fault - the article gets several things wrong by implication - but even what the article gets right, Dave gets wrong.

It's impressive, really.

This.

It's almost the archetypal Hawkins post

- Hawkins clearly doesn't know what he is talking about

- his source doesn't say what Hawkins says it does (because Hawkins doesn't know what he is talking about)
l
- Hawkins understanding of how government works in the UK (and the other independent states that choose to share their Head of State with the UK) seems rooted in  the 18th century at the latest...it can be the only reason why he might think that Prince Charles is  viewed as an "authority" on anything in "England". In Hawkins head it's still  1776.


Priceless vintage Hawkins.
2
You think that cell duplication that happened in lenski's lab Is Random. I think it's not. I think it was NGE.

Let's try to find out which is correct, shall we?

But then you've just re-defined "random" as: "Action not based on sensory data or analysis of same" which is clearly bullshit.

Please write in English, not Davinese.
Yes it's clearly b*******. I just would like it to be not b******* so that I don't have to be wrong.

fyp
3
If anyone wants to see a microcosm of what's wrong with my brain, you need look no further than this thread.

fyp
4
Hey Dave, maybe Bannon has the killer evidence about Killary and the emails ... at least he'll get a chance to put it on the court record:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42710630
5
Guys.  And gals

I promise you that I will engage you on this topic on the other thread.

I don't believe you.

You agreed that there was a "disparity" regarding your response to posts by men and by women here.  You said it was something to do with a "pendulum".

What is this "pendulum" that apparently causes you to treat men and women differently on this forum?

i think it's this:

I also know that feminism has been a good movement in certain ways because it has reduced oppression of women. But it has been bad in other ways and the pendulum could swing too far and really cause a lot of problems.

6
"Your goat prison is illegal"

Bullshit.

Show me your law that says so.

Show me a case where someone was prosecuted for something similar.
Who are you quoting?
Some idiot back a few pages.  Not you.

and of course it is a quotemine. What I wrote was: "Your goat prison is illegal where I live"

your dishonesty is revolting.
7
Hugely telling that the God-believing creationist here is the one who refuses to value animals as anything more than useful (for him) machinery
Been thinking about that throughout this discussion. It really is weird, considering the number of times in the past I've seen YECs berate "Darwinists" for thinking of living beings as "machines." It's just another example of the amazing contortions Dave will twist himself into to argue even the most trivial of points. DaveHasToBeRightism really overrides all other thought for him.
If you are really going to adopt that view, then you have to explain why Dave Hawkins - YEC - has a much kinder-and-gentler-to-animals milk production system than 99% of the milk production systems out there.

Question ... do YOU drink grocery store milk?

If so, then YOU are the one mistreating animals, not me.

You don't have a "much kinder and gentler" system - you have a system that would have seen you prosecuted for cruelty, the animals re-homed and the equipment destroyed where I live.
You very likely have no idea what you are talking about.  I doubt seriously that any officials where you live are as stupid as you.  But I suppose they could be.  If they would if fact do what you are saying, then what they are actually doing would be putting my goats into a WORSE situation in which they would die if not for medication and in which they will probably be eating old dry yucky hay all winter and where they would have a bit more elbow room, true, but at the expense of having to walk around (and eat) in their own feces and in the feces of their other cell mates.

In short, you're an idiot.


Nope - where I live the population and their legislative representatives put the welfare of the animals in our care above any individual's desire to be cruel and to treat them like insentient machines.

Your goat prison is illegal where I live and you would have been prosecuted by now. Allowing pigs to die through neglect is also a crime here...
8
Hugely telling that the God-believing creationist here is the one who refuses to value animals as anything more than useful (for him) machinery
Been thinking about that throughout this discussion. It really is weird, considering the number of times in the past I've seen YECs berate "Darwinists" for thinking of living beings as "machines." It's just another example of the amazing contortions Dave will twist himself into to argue even the most trivial of points. DaveHasToBeRightism really overrides all other thought for him.
If you are really going to adopt that view, then you have to explain why Dave Hawkins - YEC - has a much kinder-and-gentler-to-animals milk production system than 99% of the milk production systems out there.

Question ... do YOU drink grocery store milk?

If so, then YOU are the one mistreating animals, not me.

You don't have a "much kinder and gentler" system - you have a system that would have seen you prosecuted for cruelty, the animals re-homed and the equipment destroyed where I live.
9
Dave, that is seriously fucked up.

I don't give a shit what testy says about your cage cultured fauna, it's revolting and essentially cruel to stick a bunch of animals in a damn tiny cage, especially when you have 10 bloody acres of land to muck about with.

cruel and illegal where I live
10
BALANCE

Is what I'm seeking to achieve. 

For example, I'm trying to maintain excellent animal condition, but not at the expense of depleting my pastures, and thanks to people like Allan Savory I now know how to do that.

Another example...  I want some light physical exercise every day, but I don't want so much exercise that I'm dog tired every night.  Again, thanks to Allan Savory and his disciples, I now know how to achieve that while producing my own real food.

I could give many more examples.

It's a shame that you choose to achieve this by torturing the animals in your care.
11
Even most of your own Darwin club members don't say that I am being cruel to my animals.  It's pretty much an insane one woman campaign here I think.

You have been, and continue to be, recklessly and arrogantly cruel and abusive to all the animals in your care.

If you were living where I live you would probably have been prosecuted by now.
12
"What is certainly true is that a meat only diet - especially when "meat" does not include marine animals and game - is not a healthy diet."

Nope.  You're wrong again.

You should go back and re-read Stefansson's story.

See this is your problem.  You ignore data you don't like.  You have an idea in your head of how the world should be and you ignore all data that doesn't fit that view.

you are projecting again.
13
Anyway, back to Bill Mollison ...
Quote
You see, if you're dealing with an assembly of biological systems, you can bring the things together, but you can't connect them. We don't have any power of creation - we have only the power of assembly. So you just stand there and watch things connect to each other, in some amazement actually. You start by doing something right, and you watch it get more right than you thought possible. http://www.context.org/iclib/ic28/mollison/
So awesome.  That's exactly what I've done ... Assemble ... in my case a neat little moving animal pen ... and then I just sit back and watch the machine work!  It IS quite amazing.

...that despite having the opposite intentions, you have managed to reinvent factory farming with all its ills but none of the benefits.
Factory farming is quite different in many important ways.  Let's list the differences ...

1) I'd say the biggest problem with factory farming is that the animals have no access at all to pasture.  With my system they have 24/7 access to wonderful, lush, clean pasture whether they want to or not.
2) The stench is horrible at factory farms because manure is a liability.  With my system there is no stench at all and manure is transformed automatically into an asset instead of a liability.
3) Factory farms give their animals unbalanced diets and their health suffers.  My animals The animals I don't kill through neglect get a completely un-natural diet.
4) Factory farm animals are in very poor health because of the shitty conditions / poor diet.  Thus they are on medications which requires lots of work and it also messes up their gut biomes. I kill some of mine through neglect before they have a chance to become ill
5) Factory farm animals get no fresh air or sunshine.  Mine get plenty of both, even if the cold kills them.
6) Factory farming degrades the environment.  My system improves it degrades the animals.
7) People don't like to visit factory farms.  People DO like to visit my farm.

fyp
14
Here's what your "nested hierarchy, therefore common descent" argument boils down to ...

1)  Chimps have some similarities to humans  so they "nest" together in a group
2)  Proposing that "God did it" is "unscientific."
3)  There's all these bones and skulls which, if we squint and mumble and hold our nose, we can say that they are transitional between apes and humans ...  public school kids don't know the difference  and don't care anyway so they'll buy it.
3) Therefore there must  have been a common ancestor of the apes and humans.

Science, baby!
That's not what it boils down to. You are an idiot Dave.
Sure it is, once you take off all the fancy clothes ignore all the evidence and look at the bare naked argument. Bible

fyp
15
No need to be "fair to Dave" ... he's one of THOSE people ...

Tell me again Superhoop, Voxrat, Lizzie and the rest of you people that are posting anything BUT constructive comments ...

What is YOUR interest in Sustainable Agriculture? In other words, why are you here? And not in some other thread or forum where you have an actual interest in advancing science in some way?

I'm here to add to the chorus of people who are telling you that you are visiting unnecessary and gratuitous cruelty on some of the sentient beings that find themselves in your care.

I know you are not listening but my conscience insists that I point out your gratuitous cruelty anyway...
16
One winter.  No bought hay.  None.  I had very little TREE hay bc it was so new to me and I wasn't very organized, but I had plenty of what we in HMG call "stockpile" in my pasture.  It's just tall grass that remains green and nutritious long into the winter.

You seem to have forgotten the animal you directly killed , those that escaped ( and may have died shortly afterwards) and your continued torture of a pair of goats
17
I dare say that I am more interested in feeding hungry children than ANY of you people are.

But I'm not going to do it by stealing YOUR tax dollars. I'm going to do it with MY money.  And it won't be handouts. It will be help of the "teach a man to fish" variety.


What is a government for David?

Seeious question.

One sentence answer.

Ready. Set. Go.
Great question. One which we should all re-examine I think.  I can't come up with a one sentence answer right now, but I can tell you for sure that government is not supposed to be making direct payments to individuals.  If our founders knew that we were doing this, they would turn over in their graves.

So basically what you are saying is that you have no idea what the function of government is.

Why am I not surprised.

Bump

So, David, what is the function of government?
Maintain law and order. Punish evildoers. Provide for roads. Coin money. Provide for common defense.

To name a few.

...and "promote the general Welfare" ?
18
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

How many more innocent creatures must be tortured and die on the altar of your ego?
19
Don't miss that second item ...

The DNC... Effectively owned by Hillary Clinton...

APPROVED

articles for printing in the mainstream press!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck me ,you are an idiot .
20
Don't miss that second item ...

The DNC... Effectively owned by Hillary Clinton...

APPROVED

articles for printing in the mainstream press!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck me, you are an idiot.

21
With all the noise that the media is making about nothing wrt Russia, I had forgotten what a complete treasonous criminal Hillary Clinton is... We should all be thanking Donald Trump for kicking her ass.  She should be the one going to jail.



https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/757635219075764224/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snopes.com%2F2016%2F07%2F25%2Fwhat-we-know-so-far-about-wikileaks-dncleaks%2F

Fuck me, you are an idiot.

22
In case you forgot ... here's how it works ... yes, even where Osman lives if he has at least some grass ...



Hey David,

A kindergarten drawing isn't evidence or data out in the real world .

Just so you know.
23
I wake up every day and I come here thinking ... surely they'll get it today ... how can anyone NOT get it? But no.  Every day is the same.  Utterly broken thinking patterns.


Maybe...just maybe...it's you who doesn't get it?

It's clear to all that you have no idea what you are talking about when you use words like "sustainable" and "biodiversity".
24
I'd suggest you at least look into tougher bags. At least, all the garden soil bags I've seen here are made of plastic that splits pretty easily. Why would you want to use good topsoil/garden soil anyway?

When people do earth/sod rooves, the intention is for vegetation to grow on them. This builds a living root mass that holds everything together, and is a green roof also.

You intend to never have the soil see the light of day again, and that may indeed lead to moisture, mold, plastic bag breakdown, spillage.
You think Dave can dig? 

At least his dirt in plastic bags is sustainable and not an input.
Not if he gets it from a hardware store. Topsoil is frequently 'mined' from fields out in the country, depleting the soil there. Organics and fertilisers may be added to create a uniform product. The plastic bags aren't fabricated for long term use, and in fact break down rather quickly, becoming brittle and easily torn.

As for the DIY option, long ago he rejected earthbag construction as too much work.
Seriously, Dave. Don't listen to these manipulative bitches. They only want to confuse you and make you fail. Topsoil bags in the ceiling is brilliant. Do it.

But liberate your goats first.

25
I'm reminded of the time when then candidate Trump
(Oh happy innocent days) told us all that there were
parts of London where the police feared to tread
as they had been taken over by Muslims.

And our then Mayor's response that were parts of
New York he was afraid to go to because of the chance of running into Trump.
IIRC it was BoJo rather than Sadiq Khan who said that.

Yeah - the clue was when I writ "our then mayor"