Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • TalkRational: I live in hope

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - MikeB

1
In fact ... I'll fill you in on my approach ...

Step 1 ... Use Bill Hoesch's article on Geologic Provincialism as a research outline ...

Step 2 ... Research the various sandstones named in his article and see if they correlate stratigraphically with one another ...

Step 3 ... use TR members for undergrad research and award honorary PhD's from AF Dave University if they do good work!


Lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_9Hsk4gLYg
Amazing
Jesus... Keep your knees together John.
Do not look there!
2
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
A significant additional principle Heinz has never acknowledged is that, for all propeller designs, there is no common thrust for a given shaft power.  For smaller propellers, at higher RPM, which move less air at higher speeds, thrust per unit power is less but higher airplane airspeeds can be achieved.  For larger propellers, at lower RPM, which move more air at lower speeds, thrust per unit power is greater but those higher airplane speeds cannot be achieved.  An example given multiple times is the large rotors used on helicopters, which provide high thrust (high lifting forces) but not high vertical airspeed.

The aspect of these propeller differences, that allows DDWFTTW to work, is the increasing static thrust capability as propeller diameter is increased.  DDWFTTW requires some static thrust in excess of cart retarding force at the wheels in order to accelerate past the static thrust condition when the cart is at windspeed.  References with math have been provided, which allowed estimates of propeller size required depending on wheel retarding force and cart speed over the ground (thus power available to be sent to the prop shaft), to exceed this retarding force with the cart at windspeed.

http://www.jefflewis.net/aviation_theory-theo_prop_eff.html
3
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
"It was a 10 mph wind again wasn't it? Bull fucking shit! The wind was well over 25 mph and the cart barely cracked wind speed going at an angle to the wind."

Sure, "Mr. Who Was Not There", tell us all of the details in your imagination.  A 25 mph wind kicks up so much dust at El Mirage that people take shelter from it.  There was no such issue.  Pro tip:  It's possible to gauge wind speed by driving a car downwind with a streamer held up well above the ground.  When the streamer hangs down, the car is at wind speed and you look at this thing called a "speedometer" and note your speed.
4
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
I don't understand how anyone who is aware of the NALSA certification can state that "it doesn't work".  We all KNOW it works with the diligence of NALSA and the almost 3x windspeed record.

Now, if the stated certification was that the BB achieved 1.1x windspeed, some doubts about gusts, lulls, measurement accuracy etc. may be credible.  At 2.8x windspeed, any skepticism is just for trolling purposes.

I personally witnessed the BB rolling along at roughly 1.5x - 2x windspeed in a gentle wind that seemed to average around 10 mph.
5
The concept of zero seems not fitting for bees.
6
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
That's right.  Slipping doesn't help and excessive heat dissipation in deforming rubber tires doesn't either.  Angling off of DDW doesn't help either.

Question for Spork- did you guys intend for the variable pitch to be employed gradually depending on BB speed with respect to the wind?  The driver at El Mirage said that he would just move the pitch to full once the BB got partly up to windspeed and he could feel the effect.  I wondered if that was optimal.
7
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
According to MikeB, the cart could not even catch up to air-filled balloons that were released near to ground level,
No, MikeB said that the balloons blew off to one side.  He did not say that "the cart could not even catch up".

The balloon test failed in the sense that it proved nothing at all, and you're (dishonestly) trying to spin it into evidence against ddwfttw.  It shouldn't surprise me, given your extremely dishonest track record.

Bullshit. More Lies and excuses. He said he thought the cart was catching up but OMG the camera broke, or some horseshit.

That means the cart was behind and never caught up with the balloons.
Wrong dipstick.  What it means is that the BB got past the balloons before I could begin videoing.  After I dumped the balloons, my driver did not slow down immediately and pull to the side.  It was over before we could get in position for any shot, the BB had gone way past the balloons by the time we got back close to abreast of the BB.  That is why my next plan was to get to a better area of the lake bed, be sure to release balloons farther ahead of the BB to have a bit more time, and immediately remind the driver to pull aside and hit the brakes.  And I have explained why that second trial did not happen.

The camera was working fine, as you could have seen if you viewed my YouTube video taken a few minutes after the balloon drop.  And by golly, there is the BB going DDWFTTW in a gentle wind, as shown by my streamer as we drove alongside.

You are free to debate all of the "theory" you wish.  You are not free to re-interpret my words to make a statement you wish were true.
8
Politics and Current Events / Re: in a 5-4 decision
e.g.

https://thinkprogress.org/south-dakota-lawmaker-supports-racial-discrimination-23fee8061132/
Hahaha, look what ThinkProgress called Clark:

"making him a likely shoe-in for reelection in the fall."
9
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
...
According to MikeB, the cart could not even catch up to air-filled balloons that were released near to ground level, even though the he says cart was not far off of being ddw. Of course, the crackpots have nothing but excuses for this total failure! If the cart was capable of exceeding wind speed, with the wind measured at propeller hub height, it should have been able to easily outrun these balloons at ground level, but it couldn't!
Hey asshat, don't put words in my mouth.  I told everyone, clearly, what the issues were with my one attempt.  And I will say it again.  You, who were not there at the lake bed, have no basis to twist my words.

1.  We were initially confined to the edge of the lake bed by cones and so were traveling a bit off of directly downwind.  Perceiving the BB was above windspeed (duh, by the streamer I attached to my car) I asked my driver to surge ahead of the BB and I released the balloons.  Driver forgot my prior instructions to then pull to the side and hit the brakes, to drop back aside the balloons.  I was distracted for a few seconds by a camera issue and then, in just a few moments, the BB had scooted right by the balloons as they drifted a bit to the side, across the cones, and the BB was not allowed to follow them.  In seconds I was out of time to salvage the attempt and we rode along side of the BB.  I videoed that and put it on YouTube, showing the BB cruising above windspeed in a gentle wind.

2.  Winds started to pick up and BB was going for another run.   I stated my intent to try the balloon drop again but this time waiting until we were well past the cones and the BB could directly follow the balloons.  I was in disbelief when my friend began to worry about safety of other motorcycle riders on the lake bed, imagining that someone would be "startled" by seeing a balloon rolling along and might have an accident.  He would not participate further.  I was quite angry and just started the drive home.

3.  Now I'm unhappy that I did not remain calm then and just tell my friend to stand aside as I handled the second run.  Even a single balloon could have served the purpose if I released it far enough ahead of BB, dropped back and videoed.  I believe the opportunity is lost forever as it's doubtful that Neil will ever make this outing again after they had satisfying runs at higher speeds after the first.

For what had better be the final time, I again state that the BB did not "fail to catch balloons".  The failure was in the details as I've described above.  You are not allowed to rephrase "what MikeB said" and I already told you that a week or two ago, 'Mr. Who Was Not There".

What is the matter, RP?  You cannot comprehend that NALSA is capable of tracking these issues with enough accuracy to answer any questions?  And by the way, you seem to say that Heinz is the brunt of insults or name calling?  What thread are you reading?  Heinz has been quite liberal (oooooh, that word!) with insults, more than holding his own.

For the record, the BB easily outran the balloons at the lake bed and I have explained why I don't have video.  Me, 'Mr. Who Was There" verifies the balloons were quickly left behind, and we obviously drove downwind above windspeed alongside the BB.
10
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Heinz is maliciously trolling.  It's something that gives him pleasure.  He's smart enough to have understood the numerous clarifications of the DDWFTTW mechanics we have offered for years but he is committed by pride, or something, to stay with his position that "it can't work" no matter what.  So nothing will change here.

P.S. Welcome back Windgrins
11
...
You crackpots had a chance to show something with the balloons. If the cart could do 2 x wind speed, the balloon test would have been a cinch. That was a total failure and now all you have is excuses....
That's what I suspected some time ago when you called the balloon test "a failure" and I responded that it was not a failure, but instead it didn't happen.

It's not correct that a balloon was released and the BB failed to catch up to it.  I clearly explained that we had some technical difficulties with the process and that my friend driving failed to hit the brakes after we released balloons, to get me back into video position before the balloons veered away.  The cart had already passed the balloons before I could resume the video.

Then, when I figured out what to do better, my buddy became worried about safety and would not help again.  In hindsight I should have let him stand aside and followed the BB upwind to try again, driving, releasing the balloon in a better area, and videoing it myself.

I tried to pull this off for all here including you but it didn't work out.  There was no failure documented regarding BB catching balloons, and no success documented either.  Anyone present could see a number of wind streamers and that the BB was clearly exceeding wind speed.  So stick to your cart-on-treadmill concerns and I'd appreciate it if you did not imply that the failure to record a balloon video means that the BB failed to overtake a balloon, as that is false.
12
Teehee.

Someone takes their cart for a belt on a lake. Cue 10 pages of abdominal discomfort.

The balloon test was a total failure. The only abdominal discomfort I feel is from laughing so hard! At the test, and the excuses! It is "the dog ate my homework" level of funny!
No, it wasn't a failure, it simply didn't happen.  Thought I explained this clearly enough.  There is no excuse, I admitted that I did not plan and execute well.  Then my friend declined to help on a second run.  I will do it again if there is another opportunity but have to wonder if Neil will take the BB out again anytime soon.

He did post his videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqzdMmYu0BowFLn43enNZosvt52NlgvAp
13
Guys, relax.  Earlier in the run, when I released the balloons, we were not quite directly downwind and the BB was prevented from turning (by a coned off area) to follow the balloons.  That is why I was remarking (in the video) that I should have waited until later, when the BB was free of the coned area, and I could have made a better job of it.  At that point, recording the video, we certainly were traveling essentially directly downwind.

We had been asking the BB driver, Steve, what the controls were like and if the variable pitch control had much force feedback.  He replied that it was surprisingly little.  Then he also noted that it seemed pretty easy to sense when he was angling off the wind direction, as that would have a noticeable effect in slowing the BB when he got more than some amount off.  He said that turning near a right angle with the wind would quickly bring the BB to a stop.

I had been keeping track of the wind direction, there were streamers and flags here and there to help, and I can assure you that in the part of the run I videoed we were close enough to directly downwind that we were getting full performance for that weak wind.  Angling off wind direction only hurts the BB performance.

If the BB ever get out to El Mirage again, I'll try to manage the balloon demo better, and will either take a less worried friend or just re-think it and do everything myself.

Edit - just noticed comments that if I drove 90 degrees to the wind direction, directly cross wind at 20 mph in a 20 mph wind, that the streamer would point straight back?  No, it would point 45 degrees from straight back.  This streamer was close to six feet away from the side of the car and well above the lake bed, so it would have been able to show that.
14
The day is done and we had some success but also a disappointment.  The balloon release was somewhat a debacle due to circumstances so I have no video of it.  Due to the crowds and huge coned-off area for the top speed trials (think Bonneville Salt Flats) the BB was forced to stay near the side of the lakebed.  I had thought we were heading close to directly down wind but we were not, there was a crosswind component.  Tried my best to release the balloons in line and well ahead of the BB, only to see them tumbling off line as I was grabbing for the camera (was kind of a big deal to kick the rear hatch open and get it closed). 

See attached photo of the balloon bomb load.  The red ones are two feet in diameter.

On the plus side, I did get some decent footage of the BB a bit after the balloon effort, where we were able to angle a bit more directly downwind and the BB was making 20 mph.  We had a PVC pipe across the roof of the car, holding a streamer to indicate airflow direction relative to the car.  This is the 70MB .mov file I have that looks pretty good.

I'm tired now so will think more tomorrow about details of sharing the video.

To cut to the chase, no evidence to support the claim of the cart going ddwfttw. You did not see, nor did you record, the cart catching up to or passing any balloons blowing in the wind.

I do appreciate that you made an honest effort and I hope that you and your son had a nice day in the desert. It must have been fun! Thanks.
Correct, I botched the balloon trial.  We were quite a way ahead of the BB when I released the balloons and my driver forgot my instructions to pull back to the side and hit the brakes, to allow the balloons to catch back up to us while I recorded the results.  So while I fumbled with the camera, we did not get back in position to record before the balloons.  It was clear to see that the BB overtook them as they angled to the side but I have no proof.  I really needed one more helper.

While no balloons, I do have clear proof of DDWFTTW, the subsequent video I took.  The wind was not strong, it was no more than 10 mph, and the BB was making 20 mph as shown on my speedometer.  They had a gps on the BB and it recorded a peak of 22 mph.
The video shot through my car window shows the streamer attached to the pvc pole on my car blowing backward while we stayed alongside the BB.  I will share this video when I can.

One more thing that frustrated me was my helper (a friend, not my son).  After the unsuccessful first balloon release, I said that I wanted to try it again, but this time waiting until we were farther down the lakebed and could get a better straight downwind path.  My friend is a famous worrier and he became concerned about safety.  "There are people riding all around on motorcycles and a balloon might startle someone, causing an accident.  I cannot be part of this anymore".  I told him that was an unrealistic concern, that riders were already alert watching for the occasional divot or bit of sagebrush on the lakebed and that seeing a balloon rolling on the lakebed would be no more than a chance to run over it.  No avail, he refused to drive again if I was going to release a balloon, so I called it a day.

Edit - OK gang, I just created a YouTube account and uploaded the video.

https://youtu.be/kZYma0sttvU
15
The day is done and we had some success but also a disappointment.  The balloon release was somewhat a debacle due to circumstances so I have no video of it.  Due to the crowds and huge coned-off area for the top speed trials (think Bonneville Salt Flats) the BB was forced to stay near the side of the lakebed.  I had thought we were heading close to directly down wind but we were not, there was a crosswind component.  Tried my best to release the balloons in line and well ahead of the BB, only to see them tumbling off line as I was grabbing for the camera (was kind of a big deal to kick the rear hatch open and get it closed). 

See attached photo of the balloon bomb load.  The red ones are two feet in diameter.

On the plus side, I did get some decent footage of the BB a bit after the balloon effort, where we were able to angle a bit more directly downwind and the BB was making 20 mph.  We had a PVC pipe across the roof of the car, holding a streamer to indicate airflow direction relative to the car.  This is the 70MB .mov file I have that looks pretty good.

I'm tired now so will think more tomorrow about details of sharing the video.
16
Quote
I see they record in a .mov file format and assuming we are able to record steadily enough to clearly show what happens, next will be learning how to post to YouTube.  I don't have an account yet but my son does and maybe he will host for me.


Good luck today.  I really hope you get good conditions and some good video.  I'd be happy to convert the video format, edit it, and post it if that helps.


Awesome.  I wonder how I would pass a 100MB file to you, other than put it on a CD or USB stick and mail it.  Maybe we will have multiple files that could be edited and joined.  I really should learn how to do it.
17
..........
I hope they do a balloon test.  I've done what I can to help facilitate it.........
Really appreciate the help Spork, putting me in touch with Neil.  I am heading to El Mirage today with a load of balloons, lots of 12-inchers and eight 2-footers.  I'll probably faint blowing them up, can't find the airbed pump I used to have.

Video equipment consists only of an iPhone 7 and a small Nikon Coolpix L340.  I see they record in a .mov file format and assuming we are able to record steadily enough to clearly show what happens, next will be learning how to post to YouTube.  I don't have an account yet but my son does and maybe he will host for me.
18
Obama did use military bases to house illegal children immigrants.

I'm not sure I've ever heard the phrase "illegal children"  and not been horrified. The idea that young children could be criminals by virtue of their birth has never aged well.


Illegal is an adjective describing the immigrants, not the children, eh?  No such thing as an illegal child...is there?
19
...... With that said, sure, it would be fun to see it chase down some balloons.
Yes it would!  I see a modest chance of that happening this Saturday although proper video with a cell phone may be the biggest challenge.
20
............
To spin a wheel, the belt MUST deform into an arc at the bottom of the wheel, regardless of whether there is any wheel deformation or not, as I said earlier.

To roll on a surface, the wheel MUST deform where it meets the surface, regardless of whether or not there is any surface deformation.
Heinz, this is the same misconception you have been peddling for a long time and I'm pretty sure where you were introduced to it.

You considered the case where you have a rotating shaft with a pulley or wheel, and you want to transmit power to it via a belt.  The wheel is fixed in place and the moving belt has to be brought into contact with it, with some pressure, to create enough friction against the wheel to rotate it, especially with any significant torque.  In this case even the slightest pressure against the wheel will deform the belt (locally curve it) and may have to be significant in order to transmit force / power.  So to transmit any torque to the wheel, make the wheel turn, the belt has to deform.

Then you have been claiming that this is equivalent to a wheel rolling on a surface, and that a treadmill belt has to act the same as what I described above.  This is nonsense; a treadmill belt is backed up by a smooth, flat surface and does not have to deform at all against a wheel to transmit torque to it.  The flat backing provides the force, not the belt tension wrapping around a wheel as with some farm implement.
To roll on a firm surface, a wheel need not have any specific deformation, this is a bizarre idea.  A wheel can have lots of deformation, creating plenty of rolling resistance and also energy loss due to the hysteresis involved in rubber flexing.  Or it can be nearly infinitely rigid against a similar surface, with the least rolling resistance and energy loss.

Balloons anyone?
21
A box attached to the cart?  (Nice damper).
22
Spork, you don't note a likely time of day to observe.  Is there a typical best window for steady winds?  Has Neil said anything about his plans?
Sorry, I don't know his plans.  I can ask if you like.  If you're on facebook I can also introduce you there.

I don't do Facebook so it would be great if you can get a few details of his plans.  I'd love to release some balloons downwind of the BB and video the BB running them down.
23
I might send over a child with a bunch of helium balloons to show what a farce this is.
Hmm.  I live only 80 minutes from El Mirage dry lake bed, and I can get that day off of work.
If you come to the area that day, I will meet you, try to negotiate with the owner to drive ahead and release some items.
You provide the items.
24
Even if you built a circular track and let the cart self start, it still won't matter.  A true believer isn't interested in facts and reality. 
At least in this case the facts have become obvious.
25
Cool.

Will it be sailing downwind or upwind?
Downwind.  He only has the downwind blade set.
Spork, you don't note a likely time of day to observe.  Is there a typical best window for steady winds?  Has Neil said anything about his plans?