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Topic: The Tides ... Take 5 (Read 3129 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • ffejrxx
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #25

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #26
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #27
I'm curious if you're ever going to acknowledge you were wrong about this. 


http://volkov.oce.orst.edu/tides/
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #28
I'm curious if you're ever going to acknowledge you were wrong about this. 


http://volkov.oce.orst.edu/tides/


I guess that's your way of saying "no, I will never acknowledge I was wrong"?

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #29
I'm curious if you're ever going to acknowledge you were wrong about this. 


http://volkov.oce.orst.edu/tides/


I guess that's your way of saying "no, I will never acknowledge I was wrong"?
Where's the fun in that?

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #30
I don't even remember what he is talking about.  I think it was his claim/belief that there actually are supersonic tide waves following the moon or something.

In any case, the tides don't give a shit.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #31
the old and the new




"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #32
 :wave:

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #33
The twin bulges do not "actually exist", which is obvious from the actual data, the TOPEX observations, and the advanced models (the output in the daily animation is model data, based on observations).

That anyone can't grasp this, after all this time, is a  bit hard to believe.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #34
Quote
The fact that the bulge theory more nearly describes the forcing function rather than the resulting geometry (due to resonance and speed of waves in an ocean of finite depth) seems like a relatively simple concept that's missed by the world's foremost expert on tides.
http://talkrational.org/archive/showpost.php?p=1723836&postcount=175

Man do you have that right.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #35
The twin bulges do not "actually exist", which is obvious from the actual data, the TOPEX observations, and the advanced models (the output in the daily animation is model data, based on observations).

That anyone can't grasp this, after all this time, is a  bit hard to believe.

Sure is.

  • MikeB
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #36
The moon causes the tides and the bulges are real!  And the Earth rotates under these bulges at about 1,000 mph!  That'll outrun even the largest, deep tsunami.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #37

Quote
The fact that the bulge theory more nearly describes the forcing function rather than the resulting geometry (due to resonance and speed of waves in an ocean of finite depth) seems like a relatively simple concept that's missed by the world's foremost expert on tides.
http://talkrational.org/archive/showpost.php?p=1723836&postcount=175

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • uncool
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #38
FX, it's been literal years. Are you seriously going to keep on bringing this up without once learning the actual basis of the discussion - wave theory?

  • MikeB
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #39
Think of a guitar string.  Very taut, waves propagate at a high speed.  The string itself does not.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #40
Because we now have excellent data and models, the actual tides can be "observed" by looking at a 24 hour animation of the real world oceans.

The difference between the quarter moon and new moon is obvious and clear.  Just as the lack of two bulges following the moon shows up, when we look at the actual real world.

Last quarter vs new moon




  • Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 01:45:05 PM by F X
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #41
New moon April 14 2018


Full moon April 28 2018

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #42
Oceans Are Pulled Up
Quote
The gravitational force of the Moon and the Sun pulls the water in the oceans upwards making the oceans bulge, which creates high tide in the areas of Earth facing the Moon and on the opposite side. (See illustration.)



At the same time, in the remaining areas of the planet, the ocean water drains away to fill these bulges, creating low tides.

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/tides.html

That is simply not how it works
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #43
That's the way it would work if a planet was covered with ocean and rotated slowly enough under its moon.  It's also the correct general description of the gravitational forces that cause tides.  But yes, it's not a correct description of the tides resulting from said forces on earth.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #44
That's the way it would work if a planet was covered with ocean and rotated slowly enough under its moon.  It's also the correct general description of the gravitational forces that cause tides. 
I used to think that as well.  But even with a slower rotation and/or deeper ocean there are physics that would cause the ocean to not have two bulges. 
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #45
That's the way it would work if a planet was covered with ocean and rotated slowly enough under its moon.  It's also the correct general description of the gravitational forces that cause tides. 
I used to think that as well.  But even with a slower rotation and/or deeper ocean there are fysx that would cause the ocean to not have two bulges. 


fify.

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #46
Out of curiosity, what would the laws of fysix predict if a moon were stationary above some point on an otherwise unperturbed, ocean-covered planet (i.e. the moon was in a geostationary orbit)?  Would fysix allow for two (stationary) bulges in that case?

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #47
That's no moon

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #48
Out of curiosity, what would the laws of fysix predict if a moon were stationary above some point on an otherwise unperturbed, ocean-covered planet (i.e. the moon was in a geostationary orbit)?  Would fysix allow for two (stationary) bulges in that case?

I wonder what the sea-going Neanderthals would make of that?
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (Jonathan Swift)

Re: The Tides ... Take 5
Reply #49
There's a slim volume by fizyxcyst George Gamow titled 'Gravity' which is a good intro to that subject for the lay reader, written in Gamow's signature clear and accessible style.  In one section he deals specifically with how the Moon raises ocean tides on Earth.