Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • Talkrational: accommodationist hidey-hole

Topic: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer (Read 506 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42279427

Quote
Pope Francis has called for a translation of a phrase about temptation in the Lord's Prayer to be changed.
The current wording that says "lead us not into temptation" is not a good translation because God does not lead humans to sin, he says.
His suggestion is to use "do not let us fall into temptation" instead, he told Italian TV on Wednesday night.

Since I think 'theology' is all basically bullshit, my reaction is basically "... whatever ..."
(Though I have to admit that, as popes go, I rather like this one, and inasmuch as this tweak seems to be a move in the direction of people being responsible for their screw-ups rather than blaming them on some invisible inexorable force, that's not a bad thing.)

But I'm not sure about the linguistic assertion.
From my admittedly superficial acquaintance with 'koiné' the ancient Greek dialect in which the New Testament was written,
"and lead us not into temptation" is a pretty accurate English representation of  "καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν". 

(Faid? Are you here?)

One might question whether those Greek words are an accurate translation of words allegedly originally spoken in Aramaic, but as no record of those Aramaic words exists (as far as I know) I think His Holiness is on shaky ground, linguistically if not theologically.

But...

whatever.

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #1
Also a more faithful translation of "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us" is "You fucked with me, now it's a must that I fuck with you."

  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #2
Also a more faithful translation of "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us" is "You fucked with me, now it's a must that I fuck with you."

Some churches say "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors"

... or something like that. 

  • tysixtus
  • TITS GUNS
Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #3
Also a more faithful translation of "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us" is "You fucked with me, now it's a must that I fuck with you."

Some churches say "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors"

... or something like that. 

Well that kind of language just won't do.

  • Faid
Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #4
Yeah, "εισενέγκης" pretty much means 'bring into'. I don't know what the Pope was thinking.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #5
But he's the Vicar of God, what can you do?

Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #6
Also a more faithful translation of "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us" is "You fucked with me, now it's a must that I fuck with you."
It's the italian way....

Re: Pope wants to change Lord's Prayer
Reply #7
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42279427

Quote
Pope Francis has called for a translation of a phrase about temptation in the Lord's Prayer to be changed.
The current wording that says "lead us not into temptation" is not a good translation because God does not lead humans to sin, he says.
His suggestion is to use "do not let us fall into temptation" instead, he told Italian TV on Wednesday night.
...
One might question whether those Greek words are an accurate translation of words allegedly originally spoken in Aramaic, but as no record of those Aramaic words exists (as far as I know) I think His Holiness is on shaky ground, linguistically if not theologically.
...
Either way, it's asking "God" to stop us from being lead (by "him"), or falling into temptation, (by some other means). That would surely be asking "God" do forsake his (supposed) nature, by influencing our minds, and so curtailing out (supposed) free will.

Och aye, it's B.S.
Cognitive Ease:
The More You Hear Something, the Easier it is to Believe